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<iframe style="border: 0; width: 100%; height: 120px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=3706010832/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/tracklist=false/artwork=small/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://finals.bandcamp.com/album/finals-friends-rumored-to-be-among-the-best">Finals + Friends: Rumored To Be Among The Best by finals</a></iframe>

FINALS.BLOG (2020-present) presents “Rumored To Be Among The Best” by Finals + Friends, a compilation of original exclusives by friends of the blog, out June 5, 2025. The single is out now on bandcamp, [soundcloud](https://soundcloud.com/friendsfinals/finals-friends-stas-thee-boss) and [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hcR-C4DCiU), "Pretty Boy In Spring Colors" by Stas THEE Boss. 

Curated by Finals, the comp is 11 tracks of unique/elite music from the American underground. 

Thank you to the artists for the music. Thank you Suspence for the idea. And thank you Suspence and Gabe Weisbuch for the cover art.

Questions or comments? Hit rumoredtobeamongthebest@gmail.com

Liner notes:

**Suspence - BEAT 19**

Longtime Seattle-based DJ and producer Suspence came up with the name “Finals,” and contributed half our 2020 mag which we dropped when the blog launched. While musically active in PNW clubs and in rap groups for decades, he has recorded only one (1) mix, a masterful edition of KEXP’s Midnight in a Perfect World, and has almost no solo music out.

**Khris P - HUNNA ROUND prod Gary**

Originally from St. Louis and now living in Tacoma, WA, Khris P first came to my attention as a producer and rapper in the now broken-up Tacoma group ILLFIGHTYOU in the early 2010s. Lately he has been focused on rapping. I produced an EP with Khris and his IFY bandmate, Glenn, in 2022, called GIMME INDIE ROCK, and since then, Khris has been crazy prolific, dropping six albums largely produced by a local enigma known only as Gary. 

**Stas THEE Boss - Pretty Boy In Spring Colors** 

Stasia Irons does it all. She’s a producer, rapper, singer, organizer, writer, recently a movie scorer (dream hampton’s It Was All a Dream), and an all-time performer going back to the mid-2000s. Currently based in Portland, OR, you might know her from her involvement in the Black Constellation crew, her DJ collective Sway & Swoon, her party Latifah, or from the now defunct group THEESatisfaction.

**10.4 Rog - grownups** 

Hailing from Renton, WA, and now located in Los Angeles, the producer, multi instrumentalist, and video director 10.4 Rog has built a cult following for his Dilla-esque rap and R&B production, differentiating himself from everyone else in that lane with his superior feel, and skills as a piano player. 

**Laron - dance dance!** 

Brooklyn producer Laron is mind-blowingly good at a full range of styles, with a discography including albums with very different MCs Jay Critch and Jadasea, credits on projects by MIKE and maassai, and beat tapes that call to mind the experimentalism of artists like Madlib, and Laron’s close friend and collaborator Tony Seltzer. 

**zayALLCAPS - popshuvit!**

Producer, rapper, singer, and indie label entrepreneur zayALLCAPS makes songs about love, anxiety, manic episodes, being validated by the homies, and striving for excellence, from his adopted hometown of LA. We love the Sacramento area native’s creative chord progressions, camouflaged samples, distinct “newstalgia,” and writing from the heart.

**Tomu DJ and YoungLove Erix - no service (demo)** 

The Bay Area’s own Tomu DJ produces all types of  music for the club or the headphone, both solo and with other producers (like kimdollars1), as well as with vocalists who might talk or rap on the track (like YoungLove Erix). She also makes sublime R&B club edits, organizes the West Oakland Music Festival, and is an adventurous DJ in an open-format style, sometimes with a reckless disregard for what’s deemed cool or tasteful. She makes that shit work.

**kimdollars1 - the ecstasy of communication** 

After Finals interviewed West Manhattan born, Austin, TX based producer kimdollars1 aka DJ kimila a few years ago, she started writing and contributing DJ mixes to the Finals universe, flexing her deep knowledge of rap, and gaining skills as an interviewer. We are grateful to publish her work and remain massive fans of her beats and mixes. 

**Dear Nora - sinaloan restaurant (Finals remix)**

Dear Nora, the morphing solo and group project led by songwriter, guitarist, and singer Katy Davidson, perfected PNW indie rock around the turn of the millennium. Now splitting time between the California desert and Brooklyn, their guitar music has grown more elegant, and more gently transportive.

**fish narc and Winston Hightower - odd save - snip**

fish narc is a living bridge between 2010s DIY spaces and soundcloud rap, whose musical arc has gone from hyper-aware PNW rock to producing for Lil Peep (RIP) and now back again to his roots as a guitar player, singer, and bandleader. Winston Hightower is his label mate on K Records, aka the label Kurt Cobain had tatted.

**Matson - Tele**

I made this short instrumental with my Telecaster during the height of COVID quarantine times, which is when we launched Finals. Listening back reminds me that end times can also be beginning times, and especially when we are scared about the future it can be therapeutic to sit down and try to calm yourself by creating something. I am struck by how this song reflects none of the stress and anxiety that overwhelmed me when I made it. 



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Finals and Friends: Rumored To Be Among The Best, Liner Notes

Dom P 

Dope interview dope spot dope interviewer 


Finals 

![photo-output.JPEG](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/photo_output_c6ea4a681c.JPEG)

*All photos by Atoosa Moinzadeh*

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You maybe know Goya Gumbani from his [NTS Radio show](https://www.nts.live/artists/105610-goya-gumbani) running for the past 4-5 years, or maybe you know him from the many fashion brands’ lookbooks he’s modeled for. Or maybe he’s in your creative constellation in Brooklyn or London, his dual homes.  

If you don’t know him, now’s the perfect time to get familiar, with his proper debut album Warlord of the Weejuns having just dropped on Ghostly, a 2025 continuation of the jazz rap of the ‘90s that was swirling when he was a kid. After years of one-off songs, guest features, and collaborating on joint projects with other artists, this is his own vision of smooth, Negroni-sipping, loafer-wearing hip-hop. 

We chatted at CWW Radio Shop record store/event space in Crown Heights about his new album, which features a cast of friends, like Ya Ya Bey, Joe Armon-Jones, Swarvy, lojii, Franky Bones, and hella others, and also about loafers and how they affect they way you move through the world, and the concept of embodying one's art. 

--

**I was just saying, we’re at a bar right now, and you’re drinking liquor. Can you think of a few times alcohol shows up on the album?**

Aight. Yeah. On “Lizards/Dancing With the Devil,” one of the lines is like “I need the elixir, and a mixer, and a twist of fruit.” 

**You got a skit in there where they’re talking about “top shelf” something or other.** 

Negroni. They’re talking about Negroni. That’s my drink. I’m in my 30s now, i’m not drinking for sport, I’m drinking for leisure at the end of a crazy day or week. And I like something that you’re not gonna drink mad quick. With each sip, it hits a little different than the last one. Powerful drink. Not for the faint hearted. 

**Congrats on the album, we’re talking on album release day. It’s a very collaborative album, although the spotlight is on you and it’s your proper debut. How many people was the core group who worked on the album?**

There was a lot of collaborations on the album. When I was starting, I was like it’s my first one on Ghostly, I was like if i could ever do anything I wanted, I could do it now. But then I started to realize, there was no connection between me and some of these people I wanted to work with. There was no musical connection. I feel like, with music, you meet artists that understand that we serve music. And then you meet artists where, this is about me, or about something that’s not really about the music. So, when I started I was like I wanna work with all these people, but I wasn’t getting the love for the music. 

**You had some missed connections?**

It was more like, now wasn’t the time. They had their vision and I had mine. But I wanted people who really cared about making something that would stand the test of time, and be as motivational and inspirational in 100 years as it is now. And the first few people I reached out, that wasn’t really their vibe. It was more like, this is my fee, to even think about this. And I was like, bruh, I don’t even know you. I wanna sit down with you for six hours, and like…

**It was too industry.** 

It was quite industry. So I went with the type of collaboration I did because of the sense of community around me. I worked with the people who really fucked with me. I was like, I wanna work with you but I’m directing this whole thing, and they were like we wanna get on board. We wanna help you get your vision out. We wanna lend our creative vision to yours. In a way that’s about more than streaming, or plays, but more like us serving the music. 

**It sounds to me like you went looking for something, and then when it didn’t work out, you let it come to you. Is that true?**

Yeah. I let it come to me. And I looked more inwards than outwards. I was like, I’m really grateful for what’s going on around me. When you’re in a world, it’s sometimes difficult to appreciate it. You go looking far and wide, and it’s right on your doorstep.

**Would you say everyone on the album is the homie?**

Every single person. We’ve all sat for 8 hours, made music, ate food, and watched YouTube, and Netflix, and Tubi…

**Not Tubi.** 

Or I could go as far back as Limewire. 

**Did you come to everyone with a vision?**

What I did was, I got into this practice. I got this from D’Angelo, where he would go to the studio and listen to music and watch videos. 

**Oh like with Questlove, watching Prince videos.** 

Exactly, the Prince shit. So I was going to mad people’s houses and studios and the first thing we would talk about is, have you heard this? What you been listening to? I would be like, this is the vibe. I was playing people, Brown Sugar, Voodoo, LIke Water for Chocolate, the Last Poets’ first album, Gil Scott Heron and Brian Jackson’s album, and Miles Davis – Miles Ahead, On the Corner, Shades of Blue and Sketches of Spain. Before I would start the session that’s what we would listen to. 

![Screen Shot 2025-03-31 at 7.02.44 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2025_03_31_at_7_02_44_AM_6cd43ae6b1.png)

**Was it like a test? Like if you fuck with this music, you’re worthy?**

No, because they knew all that music. They already made jazz, and love hip-hop, and love reggae. And there was a lot of understanding of music – I’m kind of new to that. 

**It’s a very live band-y album. Who’s performing on Tuesday in New York?**

This kid Buzz on drums, Clint on piano, and a bass player named Evan, played a lot of stuff with Ya Ya Bey. All New York people. Evan is from Queens, Clint and Buzz live in Brooklyn. 

**What iterations have you done on stage?**

I’ve done three piece band, four piece band, five piece band. I’ve done me and a DJ. And me solo, me, and SP, and a Kaos pad. Kind of an artistic thing. A little more than a rap show. With this album, I knew I wanted to do more of a band thing. And I wanted to go outside the box, and make it from scratch. And any band, I wanted them to be able to musically read it, and also feel the groove. 

**So when you play in London, will you play with the people you wrote it with?**

Some of them, there’s a guy who helped me weave it together. Franky Bones. He produced the second song, the second to last song, and the song right in the middle. So when you listen to those three songs, the same chord progression runs through all of them. “Beautiful BLACK,” “Uptown Mami Skit,” and “Mind, Body, Spirit” with Seafood Sam. 

**“Uptown Mami Skit” she’s like what the fuck is a Weejun?**

She’s from uptown, ha ha. Shout out Liz. 

**They wear loafers in Harlem though.** 

They do, they do. Her pops got loafers, I’ll tell you that much. 

**How crazy is that, you named your album after a loafer. Are you wearing them right now?**

I am indeed, I would be so off-brand if I wasn’t. 

**Are those Gucci?**

No Maharishi with GH Bass, army camo embossed. Under the right light, it’s a movie. 

**Is it a corporate sponsorship?**

Hell no.

**That’s so much free press. **

I mean, fuck them. Ha ha. But the Weejun, is pretty much the penny loafer.

**They invented it?**

Nah they didn’t invent it. The Weejun was called the Weejun on some, it was like a fisherman’s shoe. A Norwegian fisherman’s shoe. The guy who cleaned the boats would wear like, a moccasin. And they (GH Bass) spoke to some guy and were like, can you turn it into a leather version? For like college n&&&as? It was like for n&&&as who went to Yale. It was made out of rubber before. It was a rubber loafer. It was super comfortable. 

**They should retro the rubber loafer and put you as the creative director.** 

I’m about to do my own loafer soon. I’m gonna make one loafer. And kind of wrap up this whole album. At like the end. One of my homies got a loafer brand, they’re called Horatio, [Horatio London](https://www.horatio-london.com/). And they kind of put me onto loafers. The first pair of loafers they gave me, I’m trying to do a version of that, it’s a croc skin horsebit. 

**So you can’t put the penny in it.** 

You can’t put the penny in it, but they made these versions with the leather strap and then the buckle over it. But we’ll see. It’s probably dropping in summertime, at the end of this album campaign. 

**You gotta drop at the end of summer, for back to school. Back to college.** 

Facts!

**I used to want to be a shoe designer when I was a kid. Did you ever go to fashion school?**

No, but one of my ex ex ex ex girlfriends was a shoe designer and she put me onto how a shoe is made. It’s not easy. It’s a lot of moving parts. She lowkey put me on. She was making shoes when I was just getting into loafers. I was like, this is crazy. She does music shit now. But she was making shoes from scratch. So I learned about lasts, the thing that shapes the shoe, everything. She’s a don for that. She had amazing taste in shoes. I mean, her sneaker game was trash, no disrespect. But she could make a good women’s shoe. And she made a few loafers, too. 

**Are you from Flatbush?**

I’m from Canarsie. 

**And how old are you?**

Thirty-four. 

**So you grew up mostly in the ‘90s. What’s like a classic Brooklyn shoe to you?**

Those Nike boots. Goadome. 

**They’re hard. And they speak to the fact that in New York, you’re often urban hiking. The loafer, on the other hand, screams to me “indoor spaces.”**

Yeah, or like, I’m reckless. I do the most in my loafers. I do the extra shit. At a festival for four days camping. 

**Do you have special calluses on your foot?**

No. I have every type of loafer, for one. The hiking type, the lug sole, the Vibram sole. But nah I just, I wear good socks…I believe in good socks. And never really rushing, bro. Any time I fuck my feet up in loafers, it’s because I’m running crazy, OD running.

**Do you think the loafer changes the speed you move through life?**

You just move a little more like, light. Light on your feet, but elegantly cruising. 

**People say in New York your coat is your car. But I think your shoes are your car. To the point where you move fast or slow, navigating the room, or the way you pivot when you turn a corner, whether it’s a loose ass Timberland, or a svelte loafer…you’re gonna take up space a lot differently in your environment. That’s what I like about style. How it’s about your vibe. I think fashion is for the birds, but style is eternal, and how you live with it. Fashion is for the birds, it’s fatbphobic, and antiblack, and wasteful, and run by white men.**   

Facts. When I think of fashion, I think of like, style is for leaders. Fashion is for those that don’t care that much and kind of go with the flow.

**So true. Fashion is for people with “taste” but actually the people with the least taste who are the biggest partakers. I might edit this out, but I’m doing an event here Sunday, and the homie invited the other homie to come out, and he was like “nah, I don’t really like DJ sets, I like the algorithm.” And here we are at a record store, and some people, who ostensibly are people of taste, would never even come here.** 

There’s people that like, don’t really care about going and seeking out some shit. They just like, OK this is what’s current, I need to be in this mindframe. And there’s people who are like, fuck that. 


![goya5.JPEG](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/goya5_d33872d44c.JPEG)

**And step outside the trend cycle, and to a degree the marketplace.** 

The box. That’s kind of what the album…it’s some shit I walk with anyway. It’s what I stand for. But when I was making it, I wasn’t thinking about connecting with any group of people. It’s beautiful that it does, and a reminder of what art can do, among people. When you put everything into it honestly and wholeheartedly, it can connect with the next individual. 

**I feel the stronger you express yourself, the more contagious your product is. And you express yourself through style, and music, and curation – overused word, and so is creative direction, but you do that. And compared to a lot of musicians, it’s in you. I can tell that, from how you made the album with friends, you can’t fake that, you made those friends based on your personality. You’re coming from a place of like, genuineness, consistently. You weren’t a different guy when we shot your photo for this interview. Same guy.** 

Right, you gotta get into character. Nah. It’s really am embodiment of self. 

**You should be so grateful for that, because a lot of people don’t have a personality.** 

Ha ha. Facts. And knowing all the people on the album, when I step back, I feel really grateful. We have a genuine relationship that’s not even musical…it’s like, what do you wanna eat? Are you hungry? Or speaking on some deeper shit. The music is the canvas, for after that, it’s an energy that you get from the people you admire and care for. 

**I want my daughter to have this quality. Putting out a vibe and people just want to get down with you. That’s dope. It’s probably what makes you have friends, in the place you were born, and in London, who helped you make your album. You have a quality that is prosocial. And I feel like America is so antisocial. So you gotta celebrate when people are open to what could happen between us, you know…maybe something good. Do you think you’re optimistic, as a person?****

I lead with positivity. I’m open-minded. And if you do that, you’ll always grow. 

**A lot of people don’t want to grow, though.** 

More the understanding of what growth is, gets misconstrued. It’s not always linear. 

**Maybe people do want to grow. Attitudes are changing around mental health. Maybe people want to turn inward and be learners.** 

Now is a different time. It’s easy to be antisocial, and a recluse. When I was growing up, you couldn’t really be that. There was no computer in your house. When I grew up Playstation 1 came out. Prior to that it was about mingling, outside. The computer was the family computer, playing solitaire. You weren’t really there. You wanted to be outside. I used to fiend for going outside. When I was grounded, I couldn’t go outside. You can’t do that, now. It’s not a punishment if the kid has everything they want in their bedroom. I’m gonna go on Discord. 

**Yo, I wanted so ask you. Do you listen to Digable Planets, Camp Lo, or Guru’s Jazzmatazz?** 

Yeah, I listened to Jazzmatazz a lot during the early makings of the album. Camp Lo I’ve been listening to all my life. Had no choice. Digable Planets, I love Digable Planets. Ladybug Mecca did a song with Pink Siifu, and I called him like how did you get her on this song? I was like bruh…

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**He’s similar to you, in that it’s in him. He’s musically like putting everything into it. Like you’re getting to know him by listening.** 

Me and him are from the same cloth. And same era, in terms of, we’re baby Miles Davises. And his shit is like, so many different bags. And it’s all still an extension of him. I really admire him, that’s my brother, he’s boundless. There’s no box you can fit him in. He redefines himself, constantly. It’s a weird concept, as an artist, that you can only do what you’re known for. I feel like art is more expression than it’s about giving people what they want.

--

*At this point the event space started blasting music, but it was a good place to end anyway. Thanks Goya!*

The Goya Gumbani Interview

richsince06

Great read would love to own this in print. Laron is the best producer coming out of New York that man has rangeeeeeeeeeee .. .world soon find out and this is a great piece towards to puzzle! Congrats  

CROOKNYC

Nah this interview is mad good and it’s really crazy for anyone to read that’s been OD invested in underground NYC rap for like the past decade or so. I dead remember how nearly all the shit I listened to, whether it was ECW, MIKE, or Jay Critch, Laron had his hands on some fye. Dude is a Goat. 

The Laron Interview

The fish narc Interview

The CENSORED dialogue Interview

![New Project (71).png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/New_Project_71_8bc034471c.png)

Big up the homie Vivian Medithi for this casual, musically deep interview with the other homie, Finals [selector](https://www.finals.blog/posts/Recorded-Sets-from-Stakes-Is-Low-3:-Hua-Hsu-Mano-b2b-swoozydolphin) and [contributor](https://finals.blog/posts/Remembering-That-Recording-Is-About-Remembering), the mighty and multitalented swoozydolphin from Detroit. If you slept on swoozy's Omnibus album this summer, under his real name (sort of) Toriin, you lost. But it's not too late to tap into one of the most emotional, rangy, chill-yet-knocking projects of the year. I find it to be a hardwon triumph, a perfect version of his work in this particular wavy vocal/production chamber, great for soundtracking rough moments in life where you still gotta swag it out and survive with style. Real end of the year list material if you like rap, dance, and shoegaze music. And true to his prolific nature swoozy's already got more jams out, more DJ mixes, and everything's fire. Do your googles! 

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 470px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=1915470459/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/tracklist=false/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://swoozydolphin.bandcamp.com/album/omnibus">OMNIBUS by toriin</a></iframe>

**Vivian: What do you usually watch on youtube?**

Swoozy: A lot of geartube unfortunately. Music gear, and ambient videos. I’m gonna put one on in the background right now because why not. Youtube is hard lately. 

**Gear videos like, I bought this new thing and here’s what it does?**

Pretty much. Or here’s the technique we used in the ‘80s and how to use it in a modern studio. 

**Do you find that platform agnostic technique transfer of using old techniques on new platforms compelling? Or is that just something you watched recently?**

I think it’s good. I jump from platform to platform. The nature of the job is I’m always getting familiar with something new. Recently a kid at work who was 19 wanted to get into beats, and I got him Ableton. But he wants to make beats that people don’t make tutorials for on Ableton. So I’m sending him FL studio so he understands that if you know what you’re doing, it doesn’t matter the platform. 

**A while ago you wrote something for Finals about making artifacts of sonic space in terms of recording. It’s interesting to think about the transliteration of these techniques from the 80s to now. In some ways you can’t get back that thing that was happening in that medium.** 

It’s cool because we’re in an era where the fidelity is not the issue. And virtual instruments make most things accessible. The harder thing is the spatial awareness and the mindset. Really not much has changed but our understanding has changed. People will make a song entirely in the box, all synthesis, AI vocals, and that point, where is the understanding of some real analog thing coming from? It’s interesting how far we’ve come. And how far we haven’t come. Cuz like Lazer Dim is raw. But if you could make beats like that in the ‘70s, and put it on two track, four track tape machine, and dude ripped that, it would still sound like Lazer Dim. 

**I’m sure everyone feels this way now, but there is a lot of rehashing across mediums. I think we see it heavily in music. It’s interesting to hear you say that because it’s like thinking about it in the reverse.** 

People been rehashing forever. Nothing new under the sun. Also means nobody’s new in coming up with original verses, original ideas. Everything is being accelerated now. I was watching a documentary about the blues in the Mississippi Delta, and this is not a knock on any of the original bluesmen and blueswomen, but you can tell they’re all pulling from the same well, and this is the ur, OG American pop music. Everything comes from that. You know the Lil Peep 2 thing? There was a blues guy named 1 and 2, that was how people referred to them. Sonny Boy. There was a Sonny Boy in Chicago, and a Sonny Boy in Mississippi. And they were like, OK, we can’t do this. So everyone knew if you were talking about Sonny Boy 2, you were talking about Sonny Boy from Mississippi. And his music probably didn’t sound too much different either. And that was 100 years ago. 

**My grandparents have the blues, I have dark plugg.** 

Basically. 

**Speaking of unoriginal people rehashing stuff, you had a tweet recently that was like “every Deftones sample/cover is better than the OG. That band sucks and I need people to be honest.” How do you feel about Deftones, swoozy?**

I like some of the stuff. I mean, I don’t want to draw the ire of Chino Moreno’s fans. Deftones, it’s fine. I feel like we all have way too rosy of an idea of nu metal and posthardcore, and post-grunge world. It wasn’t like the stuff was great or new at the time, it just sort of lasted. They had some slaps, but Deftones versus Smashing Pumpkins? Get out of here. When I listen to people who interpolate and take Deftones further, I’m like yeah this is good music. When I listen to Deftones 80% of the time I’m like, cool, this sounds like 90s nu metal. I feel like that’s more my taste. But also I don’t know, I don’t feel like we gotta retread the grunge/post-nu metal.

**We don’t have to talk about Deftones again. I know you are somebody who is interested in somewhat weird and esoteric music, I know you operate within genres that are fairly commercial, and work with people who are maybe more digestible like RXKNephew, or Dazegxd, or gum.mp3, people who are making, I don’t want to say any less rigorous or interesting work, but more accessible. Where does that impulse stem from for you?** 

In terms of being esoteric, I have a lot of interest and a lot of knowledge I’ve picked up, and it feels like a disservice to be like…I have all these things I could take from, and people I can reach out to… ANd if I hone in on one thing I get bored really fast. 

**How did you first start making music?**

That’s hard. It’s got an indefinite answer. The raw answer is i was 3 or 4 and learned how to whistle, and kept my mom up all night. At some point the local community college had piano lessons for kids, but I never stuck with it. But around 12 i was really interested in playing instruments. Bass guitar called to me. So i started picking up bass guitar and have been doing music since. DJing shortly after, producing around the same time. 

**What was the transition from instruments to a DAW like for you?**

I came up with the DAW. There’s always been a computer right next to me. Even when I got my first bass, and first interface when I was 13, I was tracking it to a rudimentary protools. The thing that made it come into maturity was learning more analog stuff, music theory, chord voicings, and then the DAW makes more sense because I know music better. 

**When you moved from playing instruments to composing your own music, what kind were you doing? People you were emulating? Sound or effect you were trying to go for?**

At the beginning, I was just playing around. Eventually I did some Dilla, ‘90s hip hop type thing. That was a fun practice, because I was like I understand this music I love. Then I started making stuff I thought sounded good regardless of style. But early influences were Dilla, more guitar stuff like MBV, Drop Nineteens, Victor Wooten. He had this sick six string bass. 

**Cool to hear you talk about MBV, because I can hear their love for reverb in the way you approach your music.** 

I’ve been really interested in the lyricism of the shoegaze movement, or lack of lyricism, like suggestions that get stuck in my head. Like what does it mean? There might be 12 words int he song but I know how it makes me feel. 

**A lot of rap I like lately whether dark plugg, or Quavo and Lana Del Rey, we’re moving away from overly constructed lyrics into something more direct and simple. Emotion coming much more from tone and delivery than content of what is being said.** 

I fuck with it. I’m not a great lyricist. And that’s the zeitgeisty thing going on, so I”m like maybe I should put out some vocal stuff again. I’ve never been an “i’m like this and they’re like that” rapper.” A lot of rap songwriting now is being cool, doing a vibe, maybe it’s being esoteric, but maybe I don’t have a lot to say about wearing designer or driving fast cars because I don’t do that. 

**I don’t think of your lyrics as esoteric. You’re not Ab-Soul. Rapping from the perspective of an astronomical body. Tomu was texting me the other night about Bad Dayz Good Jokez.** 

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I”m really interested in turns of phrases and putting words together. I come up with bars in a roundabout way, I’ll write down words or phrases that I like, and be like, how can i make a song out of this? I’ve been listening to melvin van peebles a lot more lately. You really get that he was a writer. His songs are some classic shit that a black guy in the 70s would do, talking jive but making it way different, rock, jazz, that shit is inspiring. 

**What do you take away from that?**

Atmosphere. There’s some direct influence, but I’m not about to record a soul orchestra. But the lyrical parts, where he puts you in a mode of stories told from people who were on the streets. He can make you feel like this is a song from someone who has been there. 

**When we’re talking about lyrics, are you producing and then writing a melody? What’s your process?**

It’s usually a really long process. I make the beats quick, I have 100s that just sit. When it comes time to make an album, I write to that, and freestyle. Omnibus, the beats were made in a week and a half. I had more of a hands on process, that was taking music that wasn’t even completely done, and I was writing the lyrics around the same time. The fun part for me that I’m getting into, is when I’m in the process, I’ve been feeling more comfortable looping stuff, making stuff into a song. Before, I was trying to push everything through. Now i’m more interested in scaling back. Where would I want the hook again? Would I want the beat again, here? LIke a radio song. 

**What feels different about the process when you’re working on everything in such a short span?**
 
I’ll just make an album when I’m really down bad in life, because I feel that thing Toni Morrison talks about, like when the world goes to shit, you go to work, becuase you’re not going to take it lying down. Omnibus was way faster, and also things were kind of shitty, but i felt more focused. So I guess the energy came from the focus, I guess. Considering everything around us, it’s a lot going on. That’s why I went by my own name, not entirely my own name, but i think this is me. I really put it together, this is what I think, how I feel. Versus before it was halfway, or 80 or 90 percent of the way to that. 

**That 10 to 20 percent difference of swoozydolphin and Toriin, where is that difference?**

It has to do with the range. Swoozydolphin is like me being a producer. Engineer, yeah. DJ, yeah. But mostly it’s me making sounds. With Toriin, it’s the sounds, but I also had something to say, stuff to talk about, and investment that even if the music doesn’t go far, it represents me. I put out like 20 albums. But this one was like, I stand behind it as myself, not totally, because that’s a weird thing to do, but i went and played my guitar, made some dance beats, made some hip hop, and I think the songs will make sense. 

**For sure. The headline will be “swoozydolphin is not standing on business.” Cuz what do you mean you don’t stand behind it?**

I stand behind it!

**Gum.mp3 is on here, and you were on his project earlier this year. I really fw both those songs.** 

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Those two tracks are kind of related in that they’re both old. Gum is bro. I just did a mix for his show coming out soon. We make music. We send stuff both ways. And we’ll have stuff that has been sitting for a while. The one on his album, he sent chords and a few drums, and I made it a juke thing, and it’s been sitting since 2021. The next year he sent me the rough draft of his album to master, and he was like, it’s time. This one, the one on mine, it came from a pack we were making to build out for somebody, and I think he sent it, but they probably didn’t get back. It was sitting on my hard drive, and neither of us had plans for it. I was like, I want to use this. 

**How do you pick what old stuff to include next to what new stuff you’re recording in a fast time frame?**

I don’t know it’s just the feel of it. Most of Omnibus was new. The old ones that were used, were off the feel. The new ones, I knew where the sonic world was at. And you gotta exhaust all options. So I went back to listen to old beats to see if I was missing anything. 

**Was there any particular song that came together very fast, or took the longest?**

The hardest one was probably either Clearinghouse, because I didn’t know what to do vocally, and I gave up and did dance music shit, or Float, because it was really early and I didn’t know I was making an album, just wanted to make a song that was comfortable. And I freestyled the whole thing, and landed on some themes that I worked on over the whole shit. The fastest was Rotation, I did that in 30 minutes. 

**When you say Float felt comfortable, what feels comfortable about that song to you?**

I don’t know if everyone gets for it, but I got the vibe I was going for. From the mixing, to everything. It’s relaxed, but it knocks. I don’t have the lyrical aspiration to point to other stuff, I want them to mean something to me and other people. Float was like, I wasn’t trying to get too personal, but I still wanted to make something that meant something.  

**Sometimes do you think people get the impression that your music is more tossed off than it is?**

Maybe. This album, it was raw vocals. Auto tune for sure, but I didn’t pitch it up. I didn’t obscure it too much. And it wasn’t like, nothing phrases. There’s writing going on. 

**There’s distortion, but it’s not to obscure things. It’s more atmospheric. Versus in the service of hiding stuff, or making it more difficult to hear what’s being communicated.** 

There’s a continuousness, to the washed out vocals to the dry vocals. I like the dry vocals. Dean Blunt does that a lot, Doris does that a lot. Really just them talking into their phone sometimes. But sometimes I do my thing with auto tune, reverb, and distortion. 

**What is the same between your DJing and the music you make?** 

The distance is closing. DJing, I like it not being my voice. I like going all these different places, that might be really different. I came up with a term for my DJing which is “extended format.” That means, I’m gonna play whatever. Go beyond what you’re comfortable with. And it’s gonna make sense in the mix. With my music, it’s all me. So there’s not anywhere to point to. I would like to point to other places sometimes. Lately I think they’re merging. I’ve been DJIng more of my own stuff. And in my music I’m getting better at referencing. 

**When you’re thinking about what to point to in your DJ sets, how do you know what to select?**

In a lot of ways it’s methodical, but it’s also different every time. I keep crates. I came up under OG great DJs, like Mike Huckaby, and all the DJs of Detroit who are here, and of yesteryear. So I keep crates. That’s the methodical part. But it gets real free associative when I’m doing it. And feeding off the crowd. I might play a rock song, or a ‘90s hip hop song, or Lazer Dim, but I quickly go where I want to go. When you start a set, you want to lay down ground rules. 

**What are your go-to ground rules?**

It’s probably going to be fast, probably going to mix fast. I”m going to go a lot of places, a lot of times. And play stuff people haven’t heard. I don’t play familiar music. And I try not to play tracks again, really. 


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