Braylon

New writer alert: Shout out Nick DeMasi, writing for Finals for the first time all the way from L.A.! You da man Nick, thanks for this interview with the Detroit producer Lulrose. 

Maybe Lulrose has been on your radar for a while now because you are a soundcloud freak. Maybe Babyface Ray production credits or Surf Gang affiliation put you on. Maybe you heard him on the Sideshow album, an aoty contender. Or maybe you're unfamiliar which is OK. In any case, all the rappers with the best ears know Lulrose and now you will, too. 

-Andrew

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 470px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=2296067051/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/tracklist=false/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://surfgangrecords.bandcamp.com/album/rose-vol-3-1">ROSE VOL. 3 by Lulrose</a></iframe>

**Nick DeMasi: You've worked a lot with Babyface Ray, who's obviously a legend in Detroit. What's your relationship with him like, and what has he meant to you during your career?**

Lulrose: Ray helped me infiltrate the industry. That's one of the key times where a lot of people were able to hear my sound. Over the past 3 or 4 years, we just grew into building off each other in certain pockets. He has different fan bases. He has people that expect the more traditional Detroit stuff, and then he has a fan base that's similar to LUCKI's, and then a fan base that's more similar to Curren$y's. So I try to cater to all of that. That's my perspective when I'm making music with him. Sometimes I feel like he doesn't realize that.

Did he ask you for that, or did you go to him with it? It sounds like it was more the latter.

I think it also stems from the fact that I'm not that good at just making "Detroit beats." And I'm from Detroit. I started off making underground music. Then, as I got into high school and started hearing the [Whitehouse](https://www.powmag.net/p/inside-whitehouse-studio-detroits-new-creative-haven) tapes and the shit that [Top$ide](https://soundcloud.com/topsideproductions) was producing, it inspired me to give it a try. The opportunity just presented itself, really, and I was like, "Well, I have to do something with it."

**That was the number one thing that grabbed my attention about your music. You're a Detroit producer, and you definitely have a Detroit sound, but there are all these other influences in there that really expand upon it. What is your DNA as a producer? When you first started making beats, who were you emulating?**

A lot of Chief Keef stuff. I like Isobeats; he produced a lot of Chief Keef shit. A lot of TrapMoneyBenny. The melodic Yung Gleesh shit. Zaytoven. D Rich. All the trap shit mixed with a lot of the early SoundCloud rap that was kind of melancholy, but still hard.

**Were you a Clams Casino guy? Was it that type of early Soundcloud stuff?**

I've heard Clams Casino in passing. He's good, but I listened to a lot of Yung Lean and shit too. Yung Lean was one of the first artists I found on SoundCloud. He's one of the first underground rappers I remember listening to and buying merch from. I was in like seventh or eighth grade at the time.

**What era was that for him?**

That was when he came up with "[Hurt](https://soundcloud.com/yung-lean-doer/make-you-hurt-prod-suicideyear)" and "[Kyoto](https://soundcloud.com/yung-lean-doer/kyoto-prod-yung-gud)."

**Oh, so very early still. He was just starting to accelerate.**

Yeah, that's when he did the song with Travis Scott.

**I feel like musicians hate doing this, but how would you describe your sound?**

I don't know… melodic? It's complex. I would say I make trap beats. They’re just coming from a place of how I feel on a daily basis. They're happy, sad, sometimes you can hear frustration. It just depends on the beat, you know? You can get glimpses of all those emotions in one beat.

**When you were given that opportunity with Ray, how did you think about working in the Detroit stuff? What was your strategy?**

I met him through a friend. I just pulled up to the studio. I'm the type to not say I make beats, so we just chilled a few times, and then one day he didn't have any beats, and I was like, "I make beats," and we went from there. He picked a couple, rapped on them, and they were just my style at first, but I added some Detroit drums and just built off making the songs. Ray makes a lot of music, so we'd make 2, 3, 4 songs at a time, and one of those songs would always be a standout. Every time we made more songs, they got better. The last two years, I feel like we've been making our best music.

**How did you choose the guests for VOL. 3?**

Just the first people I thought of, but also people I already had unreleased music with. I had a lot of songs that I could have used, but I just wanted to put the best songs that all had the same vibe together. It was simple. I didn't overthink it.

**So you didn't go into the tape thinking, "Oh, I want to get a song with so-and-so," it was all stuff you had made with people prior?**

Some of them. Originally, my mindset was to make a whole fresh tape and get everybody that I had in my mind on it, but it didn't work like that. I did piece some of the songs together. I had that Baby Face Ray song, and then we opened it up for Tony Shhnow. I DM'd Tony and was like, "I have a song with Ray that I think you'd sound good on." He sent it back almost ASAP. The song with Zelooperz is the most recent one that was made. I helped him record a song with his sister, and he was like, "I owe you, bro." I sent him some beats, and he sent me the song back in maybe March? My approach was chill, but in the future, I do want to work on a project where, top-to-bottom, everything is made from that point on.

**What's the oldest track on there?**

I think the Duwap Kaine song? That song's from high school. Me and Duwap made that on FaceTime, I believe. I was just making a beat and playing it through the speakers. He made the song and sent it back to me, but never dropped it. I always liked that song. I used to play it for my friends. I thought it would be cool to have on the tape because me and Duwap have history, and people specifically like that era of Duwap.

**The beats go really well with the artists you have on them. Do you produce with specific people in mind?**

Kinda. When I make beats, I can hear a handful of artists on those beats. Like the "Valet Mode" beat, I sent that to a few people. I sent it to Earl. I sent it to MIKE. I send my beats around, but just to the people I hear on them. Sometimes I'll send a beat to someone based on if they're prone to making songs fast, because I just want to hear somebody on it.

**Do you feel like the song is complete when it has somebody on it? Is that why you want to get the fast turnaround?**

Yeah. I feel like a lot of times my beats are missing something, and most of the time it is the vocals. That's literally the key sometimes.

**That's something I wanted to ask about too. I noticed you don't sample a ton; you make most of the pieces for your beats from scratch. What inspires you as you produce? When you're in the mode of making a beat, what's pulling you along?**

When I was younger, it was just something to do. I wasn't very outdoorsy, and it was just something to do. I knew I wanted to be a producer, and that I wanted to be somewhat successful at it, so I just grinded. But now I produce when I have the urge, or really feel motivated. Now I really work better in studio spaces. It's hard for me to make music at home. A lot of the beats on VOL. 3 I made at a studio or around friends. That puts a battery in my back.

**What does the studio environment give you that you don't get when you're on your own?**

Outside input. Just not thinking as hard. When other people are around, you tend not to care as much. When I'm by myself, I overthink everything or get frustrated.

**That's interesting that for you, the outside influence, instead of adding pressure, makes it easier to try stuff.**

And collaboration is super fun. That ties back to not thinking as hard. I'll start something, or work on something that someone else is doing, and then walk away from it so they can work on it again. The turnout will be whatever we come up with instead of me having to be definite and final about it. The outside input makes everything a lot easier.

**Going back to VOL. 3, you sound more confident as a producer on it. The beats are bolder and more expressive than the ones on the earlier tapes. What would you attribute that growth in confidence to over the last couple of years?**

Maybe the reception of the other two tapes? And just progressing as an artist. And the music I've been listening to. I'm not gonna say I tried to cater to the Detroit sound on the first two, but I just wanted to show that I can touch all bases with this one. You get everything with this one, a song for everybody.

**It definitely has that appeal to it. Why did you start the ROSE series to begin with?**

It's just a very producer thing to do, drop a compilation album. And there's a shortage of cool ones. I wanted to put my spin on it; it was just a matter of having the songs. That's the hard part: producers don't really get songs back anymore, so I just had to work with what I had. That's really all I'm doing is working with what I have. I want to pull off a crazy tape with crazy features and a budget. There are artists I would love to work with who just aren't accessible right now. Like I wanna work with ILoveMakonnen. If I could do a tape or EP with him, I would do that, because I'm curious about what it would sound like. Even Teezo, I would love to work with Teezo Touchdown. It's about connecting dots and stuff like that.

**Is Makonnen a big inspo?**

Oh, definitely. His voice is just so unique. It's kind of rough around the edges, but it's beautiful. That's the type of stuff that scratches my brain more than things that are clean-cut. Even the beats he raps on, they're sad, happy, weird.

**He's also very emotion-forward in his music. Do you have any favorite producer comps?**

I like DJ Mustard's Perfect 10. That album is a perfect producer album. I get that it's super industry, but it's good music. That's why it sold so many records. Cardo's is very good too. It doesn't have the biggest artists on it, just ones that he really fucks with. And sonically, it's well put together.

**I gotta tap in with that. I remember him talking about it in an interview a couple years back, but didn't know it had come out. Is Cardo also an influence?**

Definitely. He gets the swag aspect of being a producer. He's fun; he doesn't give a fuck. What I learned from Cardo is that it's okay to have repetition. I used to feel like everything was repetitive, but he makes the repetitiveness sound clean. A lot of times, you don't notice it because the artists he has on his beats rap in pockets. They're rapping between the cowbells and the open hat. There's a lot of ways you can rap on those beats.

**Is there a trick to that? Making repetition sound not repetitive? Or is it just a matter of waiting for the artist to complete the song?**

It's the artist's job to complete it, but it also comes down to sound selection and where things are repeating. You can have sounds repeat on-grid, or you can have them loose and on the offs. The way Cardo does the cowbells, they're repetitive, but they might be towards the end of the 8-bar loop. They're gonna hit at the same spot every time, but it's just this specific area, and it adds a bounce. It's a less-is-more thing. It's simple, but hard knocking.

**What do you normally start with when you're making a beat? Do you start with sound selection, or do you start with the drums?**

I either start with the melody or, if I have a loop, I start with the loop. I always do the drums last. The drums are more important than the melody, but the melody has to be just as contagious. So I'm trying to find whatever's interesting and build off that. Recently, I've been working with loops a lot more than when I first started, just from trying to push out more beats and get more songs with people. The industry kind of forces you to use loops. I don't mind it, though, it's just one of those things I noticed. I make fewer beats from scratch, but I'm just as capable. I have fun doing both.

**Why are the drums more important than the melody?**

Because that's what people are dancing to. The drums are what keep people coming back. In hip-hop, there are only so many drum combinations you can do before it sounds like something you've heard before. Drums create familiarity. They're why people like certain songs, and why some songs do better than others.

**So through the drums, you're speaking to a larger history in a way. Are there any producers that you look to explicitly for drums?**

Yeah, I fuck with Cardo. Chief Keef. Keef is an amazing producer; he's one of my favorites, and he's very good at drums. He's very intentional with them because he's rapping on his beats most of the time, so he knows his pockets. BrentRambo is also amazing with drums. He's pushing the envelope on them. That's his thing. I overly respect him for that.

**Have you gotten a chance to work with him?**

Yeah, we actually produced a song together on LUCKI's new album. The song with Lil Baby.

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**Oh cool. That's obviously a pretty big placement. How did it come about?**

I went to LA in February. I was very conflicted about going because my grandma was sick, but she told me to go, and I ended up having a really good trip. I'm cool with LUCKI, so I knew I was probably gonna go to the studio, but the album was already done, so I didn't have high expectations of being on it. There was one specific week where LUCKI felt like rapping. He heard a beat through my headphones, and he was like, "Send me that." So I sent him the beat, and it took him a few days to record that song. Then he went to the studio with Yachty a few days later and rapped on two of my beats there. Then, a few more days later, it was my birthday, March 23rd. I was just chilling at the studio, and LUCKI was like, "Lil Baby's pulling up, he might want some beats." I took a nap, and when I woke up, Lil Baby was walking into the studio. I walked in the room to say what's up, and then LUCKI was like, "Play some beats, Rose." So I grabbed my computer and handed it to Lil Baby with *untitled* open and was like, "Click through these." He clicked like the 3rd or 4th beat, and they made the song that replaced the Lil Baby song that was already on the album.

**Oh, damn.**

It was random. Super random.

**That happened on your birthday?**

Yeah. You know how guys are about their birthdays. I didn't even tell nobody, I just went to the studio. I was there all day.

**That's some alignment shit, between your birthday and your grandmother telling you to go. Was she a big supporter of you musically?**

Yeah. She wasn't that hard on me about anything. She wasn't the type to be like, "Go get a job." She knew I was doing something. Once she started seeing me really take care of myself, she dropped the whole "you need to work" stuff. She also worked at a strip club; she was a house mom. Over the years, people that I went to school with started working there, and they were telling her, "Your grandson actually makes music that people play in the bar."

**That's nice that she allowed you the space to invest in music and explore it. Were you a musical kid? Did you play a lot of instruments or anything?**

I didn't play any instruments, but I always liked music. Beats always stood out to me. I definitely listened to instrumentals a lot. If there was a song I liked back in the day, I would listen to the beat or go on YouTube and listen to the instrumental. My dad was the type to freestyle and listen to instrumentals in the car. That was just his vibe. I feel like that played into me liking beats too.

**It's funny how those early memories in the car with your parents really stick with you.**

My dad has very interesting music taste too; he's the one who put me onto Lil B. One day, he was asking if I'd heard "Fuck Kevin Durant," then he showed me Lil B getting knocked out on World Star Hip Hop. He listens to everything. Me and him will listen to Makonnen together, LUCKI, whatever. He was just listening to Fat Smaxk's album on his own. I'm not putting him hip to this shit. He's just super tapped in.

**Is he familiar with your music?**

Yeah, he'll listen to shit I've made on repeat. Or he'll just be on YouTube, and the algorithm will play some shit, and I'll be like, "Oh, I made this beat."

**You also had a placement on the Sideshow project, which is probably my favorite album of the year so far. How did you get connected to the 10k crew?**

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It really just ties back to the internet. Me and Niontay followed each other for a long time. I didn't know he made music for a while. I thought he just modeled and skated. Then I started listening to his music and showed love. We just got cool. Then I pulled up to a MIKE show in Detroit, and met MIKE and El Cousteau. With Sideshow, I was just listening to his music and posting it. Then I went out to LA, and we linked and spent a whole day together. I was with my boy AYOCHILLMAN, and we made the song that day.

**What are you looking forward to? What's next on the list of goals?**

Really just doing more projects. I've been kind of chilling since my grandma passed, but now I just want to get back to work because that's what keeps me going. So yeah, just work with my friends, slide some big projects and big names in there. I just want to blossom into what I feel like I should be. Whatever comes my way, really. It's not even about working with specific people; it's just about working with people who are good at what they do.

**Do you learn a lot when you do that?**

Yeah. It's a mutual thing. You feed off of each other, and both benefit in a way. They learn something, I learn something, and then the outcome is a song that people like. It's a win-win.

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The Lulrose Interview

Dreamcrusher 

See The LT

Pertinent fs. S/o both homies, Merk w/ another banger. 🪖

This was deep 🫶🏾  Appreciate you letting us tap into your life and your musical mindset. Keep striving and keep dropping bangers 🔥 always a fan of yours! 

Francesca 

Big up my sister Maassai 💛 I love witnessing your process and experiencing your world of art and music! 

cry$cross

NEW maassai drop this year?!?! can't wait <3 

The maassai Interview

An Interview About Tomu DJ's Iran Protest Album

Yeti

Graisey

This def was a pivotal listen for a youngin, leading to an even more moving read. S/o mboy Merk too no funny !! 

Peace to solo the soldier 🫂

PNWforager

Cool interview, the album is fucking dope!

![New Project (89).png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/New_Project_89_06c70e79e2.png)

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 470px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=2408275576/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/tracklist=false/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://akaisolo.bandcamp.com/album/no-control-no-glory-4">No Control, No Glory by AKAI SOLO</a></iframe>

*The great New York rapper AKAI SOLO's 2025 album No Control, No Glory has legs going into 2026 and beyond. For the uninitiated I recommend reading [Holly's masterful p4k review](https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/akai-solo-no-control-no-glory/), listening to the album, and then diving into this interview by Tyler Burston. Tyler, aka Merkeba, is a writer and musician that [Laron and I have been making jams with](https://finals.bandcamp.com/track/merkeba-the-power-prod-finals-and-laron) (full project otw), and who also [interviewed 1Alkebulan last year for Finals](https://finals.blog/posts/The-1Alkebulan-Interview), who asks really great questions and in this case had a very process- and philosophically-oriented conversation with AKAI, who is the kind of rapper who stops to jot down a rhyme seconds before he goes indoor skydiving. I am honored to publish this work. Thank you Tyler and thank you AKAI!* 

*The following has been edited for content and clarity and I did the transcription, so the n-words are not written out because I don't do that.* 

*-Andrew*

**With this new project, what has been your creative mindset? And what makes it distinct from your other projects?**

It's kind of been something that I've been experimenting with Spirit Roaming, this idea of non-effort. So it's an Eastern philosophy, like Taoism, the act of non-doing. And how I apply that to writing is I keep myself in a receptive space for stimulus whenever it'll come. And it could be eight bars, it could be 32, it could be one, it could be a word. And I'll write it down. And I'll go with that current of ideas until it stops. And as soon as I have to like, think hard, or try to finish that, I stop. So I played it out like that. And I guess how that differentiates itself from my other things is, projects further back in my discography I hit with  much more intentional labor. I gotta sit down and I got to write three tracks today. I gotta finish this track today.  I've kind of taken myself back from that rigidity of a process. And it’s cool, it keeps it loose. It keeps it very visceral, very present in the moment in which it happens, like when it occurs. I've written things, full tracks, in one go. I've written things in bursts, and it'll take me a couple days. And then there's been things I'll sit on for weeks. I try to make sure that I have one sort of contingency for every type of scenario that my workflow may come across. And this one in particular, I'm working on not-forcing. I feel like with anything, forcing gets very close to getting corny and contrived, and I try to keep that out of the way. It's like, you don't gotta like beat ni&&as over the head with your perspective. And there's ways to convey a lot of information succinctly. So like, I be trying to fuck with that. 

**I find it really interesting how you talk about this being a project of non-effort, because it sounds like a lot of effort. Not in a bad way, but it does sound like somebody who's rapping a lot. But I do know what you mean in terms of that viscerality, where it doesn't feel like you're necessarily trying, but there’s this free-flow of information, with that level of density or intensity because that's just who you are and that's what the track like drew from you. I really find that idea of non-effort fascinating in that it could end up being so productive, and how it relates to a whole bunch of philosophies around music and even free jazz and stuff like that.**

No, 100%. I'm also fascinated by it for that. You kind of take the opposite route on a thing, and still end up in the realm of productivity. And  cool because you would think that not-trying would lead to a dip in quality or output, but it's kind of just like it shifts your energy distribution on the pie chart of your productivity, and it refines and streamlines that energy so when it's time for you to do it, you have it in excess, because you didn't burn a bunch of energy trying. 

**What do you think was the beginning of your love of words and storytelling and language and things like that? Because it's clearly I think a defining characteristic of your writing style.**

Thanks. It kind of started in I want to say elementary school. One of the first things that I was good at was spelling bees and shit. So, I've always had a relatively positive relationship with words. Then I would traverse through the education system, English was always my favorite subject. I never minded writing an essay or anything like that. I didn't mind reading, I didn't mind words, like, flying across my retinas. I traversed through it further and then you add more facets of the thing, and it's like once we get to creative writing, I fucked with that. Once I started doing poetry and shit like that, Langston Hughes “life is a barren field,” I was eating all that up. I was definitely a delinquent in the sense of all of my schooling, because I love knowledge but I hate academia as a structure. So there's definitely things that were around me that I shirked and like neglected, but like that ingrained, intuitive affinity for it was always there. As opposed to math. I hated math in school. But I always loved a good book, or a good documentary or anything that could be translated into the literary form. So it kind of started there. Then in my junior year of high school, that's when I started to try to incorporate it into rap. That's when me and my homies were at the table, making beats and shit, cutting each other's asses. And I still have an English class, like either before or after that, so now the things are concurrent, and being juxtaposed to each other. And then, at that point I had the framework, and I just kept going. 

**Where does rap get incorporated into that love of writing? I feel like the idea of academia didn't hit, but a love of words hit, I think it's such a beautiful part of a lot of people's story of how they find their passion and anything. Education can be such a…as a teacher, I literally experienced the way that education can really shut off creativity, because it orients it towards work. And I think what you said about the no-effort thing is fascinating, because I saw that, literally in the trying, a lot of people never get to even the point where they can absorb the information because they're so obsessed with trying. We're supposed to learn, but it feels like labor. What is your definition of labor in your daily life?**

I mean labor for me is, in layman's terms, literally just work of any kind, anything that you have to exert energy into to get an outcome, desired or not, whether it be spiritual, mechanical or whatever. You got to put in to get an output. For me that's labor, on a basic primordial level. For me, whether I'm navigating a nine-to-five or whether I'm navigating my own vocation, they’re just like both different types of work. Work doesn't necessarily have to have a negative connotation all the time. I call my art my work. Work is vital to the sustainability of the person carrying it out. Whether it be on like a literal one-to-one level, or it's kind of like an internal fulfillment type of thing. With my raps, I want to get it to a point where it covers the sustainability point, but there's a very clear fulfillment level that I get from doing it. 

**I feel like that should be the ideal balance of any type of labor, where you actually get a fulfillment aspect, which is sort of like not emphasized in capitalism at all. What is your definition of success?**

Fulfillment is paramount. Ultimately you want to do things that, it's going to sound cliche, but you can be proud of. I achieved success in the context of my vocation when I continue to put out work at a level that I feel corresponds with the level of quality I want to maintain. I gotta be the nicest. I have to surpass each project. I check in with those things more than how much bread I made every month. These are the things that I check with that are critical. Like if we didn't have bread, if there was no concept of currency, would you be able to do this? And if so, what would you do it for? 

**What do you see as fair compensation for your labor?**

That's a tricky question because if you try to scale artistic contributions fiscally, it deserves the consummate sum of the resources and the amount of money that goes into bringing the thing into fruition, at the very least. Whether you want to value that based on studio time, mixing, acquiring of materials needed to create said music…whether it be live instrumentation or otherwise, compensating the people involved…. So you use a stencil like that, and you want to treat this like it's a museum exhibit or anything else of value that people want to throw all types  of funding behind, it can become a very interesting conversation that ni&&as might not want to have. Outside of that, on a really pure level, it really do be feeling like some you know, pay what you can. Money isn't the engine (for my labor). So the compensation for me is, if you engaged in it with a full mind, and you gave it a full and open mind, and you can like you give it a shot, that's the best transaction. Because that's the most rewarding one. 

**And how do you feel about these definitions of success and fair compensation, in the reception of your album and your personal goalposts?** 

It’s cool. I feel like people like it. And that's always a blessing. I'm always grateful for that.
I'm still an impoverished Black man in America. So you know, as far as the fiscal thing, that's always that's a work in progress. People are gravitating towards the music. I'm seeing a lot of positive things about the music. So for that to be the first and primary transaction that I care about, it seems to be good so far. 

**I know you just got off tour overseas. What would you say was your most transformative experience while you were touring?** 

I would definitely say just the traveling aspect. I had a homie who was DJing for me, King Jumbo, and he was holding it down. But for the most part, I navigated this whole thing by myself. So it was just like, that was a huge masterclass in self sufficiency. And just like, watching my own back. And that was cool. It was kind of just like a reminder. And like a return to form for me as far as like the ethos of how AKAI SOLO started. The last name is SOLO, because I started this by myself. It was cool to get thrusted into solitude. It was very tranquil. It gave me a very swift kick in the ass towards getting acquainted with a level of tranquility that I've been trying to get acquainted with for a while. So it was really cool in that regard. You know, you venture through like a new territory with fresh eyes, ignorant eyes, and you're just taking in culture in all of its forms, whether it be the architecture, the food, the people and things like that. And that stuff is always cool. It's always nice to get a snapshot of a perspective of how other people function outside of your familiarities. The Europe tour just now was probably the most recent transformative significant experience I've gone through. 

**You mentioned a whole aspect of solitude and tranquility you found in the travel. But I want to know, how do you think community plays into your artistry?**

I acknowledge the way that I move through the world can be very sectioned off and separate. In most circles that I find myself, I project this sort of lone wolf sort of thing. It's kind of my bag. It's not that I'm not a part of community, but I'm generally like the Batman of the group, the Spider-Man type ni&&a. So it's kind of like I'm around, but like, I might not be at the table. I might be on the roof or like I'm the ni&&a sitting on the window or whatever. I say that all to say that I'm constantly observing and I'm still present. My community is a grounding point, an amplifier of the world around me. It also keeps me tethered to it. Cause I'm really good at going off and blocking a lot of things out, but my community gives me the connections and the confidence to be able to take off like that. Because I have that thread that brings me back to like any type of relevance or zeitgeist. I don't have to constantly stay abreast of certain things, because I relinquish all of that sensory overload to my community. I have faith in the conversations and the things that members of my community stand for. And I know that when I step out and step back in, I'm not stepping into no bullshit. It's like, yeah, I mean, and it's like, we were part of the same community in a way. We move through spaces of accountability. Ni&&as just keep it a stack. I look forward to the lack of fluff, I'm grateful for the people around me. It’s flattering and humbling, to say the least.
 
**I see. What do you think that you gained from the practice of sectioning yourself off and from that habit of solitude that seems to be baked in?**

Everyone has their own, like, point of no return, within themselves. My point of no return, whenever I get deep into a work, it requires a lot. So I can't really take conventional things into that with me, although my music is comprised of conventional and mundane experiences. I have that information ready for when I'm going to go express it. But I have no room to link mad ni&&as when I'm about to do that. It's like, I got to do this. I don't have any real room to have what could be perceived as a redundant conversation. I don't really have time to play my P5 for like, nine hours. That exact notion of urgency takes a little bit of a more reserved spot with this sort of creative process. Because like I mentioned earlier, I'm not chasing it. The immediate answer to your question is, that ability to separate allows me to know when I have to reallocate my energy to the external of my social life and like my loved ones. And then when I have to shift back into an internal mode, and tend to the work.

**What do you think is the funniest or most awkward situation when bars come to you and you gotta just start writing?** 

One time I had an epiphany for a bar right before I went indoor skydiving. So I mean, that was cool. Less funny and more cool. It's just like, keep yourself ready. Keep your neural elasticity primed to catch whatever could come. It could be right when the appetizer comes. It could be right when you take the group pic before everybody go home. It could be as soon as you hug your mom. It could be as soon as you dab your mans up, feed your dog.

**What do you think you do to cultivate that neural elasticity that might not be obvious or might not be specifically musical?** 

I'm a chronic overthinker. So whether that's a product of mental illness or whatever, I think about things to an inhumane degree. And that constantly has me in a place where I don't mind sitting with thoughts, heavy or otherwise. The way that I approached rap when I started with it, was like a fighting style. I treat it like a stance or something that you have to modify.
So we have this base and it's like, how much can you expand it from this point? How much nuance can we explore? And I treat my rap style and music and expression with the same sort of discipline and lack of boundary. And it works for me. I don't know if I've said this in an interview before, but sometimes the way I’ll break down the words, I'll apply like a numerical formula to it. I'll try to write a line out and I'll try to have five words follow the same patterns. I'll write a bar out with five four letter words or six two letter words and like things like that. I'll try to maintain that numerical formula in tandem with literary devices and techniques. Even within those five four letter words, you're still going to get your alliteration, your similes, your metaphors, your internal rhymes. And it's just like, that is fun to me. I like all of that shit that keeps my brain in this wacky, unconventional place.

 

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