Finals’ first video premiere (double hammer emoji)! From the legendary PTP camp (relevant Finals interview [here](https://finals.blog/posts/The-GENG-PTP-Interview)) comes the the FLY visuals to King Vision Ultra’s “[Fangs](https://algierstheband.bandcamp.com/track/fangs-with-desde),” which was embedded in this blog post at the same time as it was taken off “unlisted” status on YouTube.

Shot in the industrial basement of the LES’ Abrons Arts Center, this utterly NYC affair was directed by Shenaia Ramsey and features rapper Desde. I like how Desde raps flanked by pipes, concrete, and PTP crew, with Ramsey’s location and lenswork vaguely recalling the urban claustrophobic experience of Method Man’s “Bring the Pain,” and the scene literally representing the underground. And shoutout flex dancer Ski, whose moves are perfect for an especially serpentine song from KING VISION ULTRA’s 2023 (re)mixtape/album [*SHOOK WORLD*](https://daily.bandcamp.com/features/algiers-king-vision-ultra-shook-shook-world-interview). 

Watch the video, and check out what KVU (aka GENG PTP), Ramsey, and Desde had to say about it, the music, and what’s next for PTP. And def check for all of their work going forward. I'll add that I saw Desde perform a bunch of KVU-produced tracks recently and it was crazy! Beats tectonic, raps all-darts. That’s all I’ll say on that. 

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**Desde**

**Whats your favorite bar on "Fangs"? Why?**

“*Airheads seek asylum in the sky / so why should I fight my gravitational pull, if pigs could fly too?*” 

That’s my favorite bar because it’s loaded lol! But very simple still. At the root of it I’m asking: why would I pull away from my grounding to join you being distant and running away from the grounding essentially, when the impossible can be possible? 

If “pigs can fly,” I imagine anything can come true. I don’t want to be in the air and unfocused and gazing into space when the reality is right in front of me.
 
If anything can come true I want parts! I want my wildest dreams to be possible and I want to make it happen. 

**How is your album with GENG coming and are there any themes developing on it so far?**

It’s coming! Slow and steady. We’re making it gem by gem. 

Honestly I suck at writing about my own themes lol! Everything is thematic by nature but it’s always hard for me to pinpoint it with words. I’d ask others who listen what do they hear the themes being? What stands out to them, what ties do they make listening to the music?

I think it’s because all the themes I’m writing about are currently being lived through. I’m tryna understand them myself. 

--

**KING VISION ULTRA (GENG PTP)**

**Where did the sounds come from on this music? Idk if that’s guitar, idk if that’s tambourine…the beat sounds like a rattlesnake.** 

hahaha i'm def not about to whosample myself to death but the shit is crazy flipped and i think it all comes from only 2 sources. the main chunk of it I chopped in like 2017/2018, originally with some totally different drums, from one of my favorite albums of all time. for the version Desde got, I had removed the drums and layered those sounds with something that i literally sampled and then broke down into stems - so it's not even a standard "drum break." i wanted to expand on the effect of that tambourine... it def sounds like a rattlesnake which is why i suggested "Fangs" as the title in response to hearing what Desde wrote to it ... specifically after "your teeth don't hang low..." like, "bet... that connected the dots."

**What’s next for PTP as far as spring/summer shows and releases?**

at this moment, the label release schedule is set for a new album every month til November... a lot of surprises and [*RESIST...*](https://purpletapepedigree.bandcamp.com/album/resist-colonial-power-by-any-means-necessary) comp alumni haha. Plus a book or two.  Show-wise, in June, I'll be in Philly and Atlanta with Dreamcrusher as Centenny Gzzz...plus DJ'ing one night in NYC which is something I rarely do. Amani doing a ton of work with STILL/MOVING. H31R just came back from UK/EU. Dis Fig is touring with The Body. YATTA is back in NYC.  There's a lot of us and a lot happening. I'm personally organizing less in terms of shows and more focused on screenings and space activations with the PTP Archival Coalition. More community markets too. Stay tapped in, you heard.

--

**Shenaia Ramsey**

**What did you want to accomplish with this video?**

Overall, I really wanted to bring the raw, and gritty feel to life that the song “Fangs” provides. Also, to collaborate with GENG, Desde, and PTP as a whole to make sure their ideas were included too, and I think we did that very well. I plugged the homie Ski in because he's just a crazy dancer all around which also really matched with the rawness of the song-- I really wanted some crazy movements in it to create an airy, spooky feel to compliment Desde’s rhymes.

In the beginning, when I initially was proposed with the idea to do the music video, off rip I was thinking flickering strobe lights, a dark space, dark figures/shadows, and the inclusion of the train because you can hear a scene of the train passing in the song, on top of Desde mentioning it in one of their lyrics. All in all, I am very happy with the outcome of the video, I believe I accomplished everything I wanted to, and I'm so very thankful for everyone involved.

**What was it like shooting in the Abrons Arts Center’s basement?**

Mannnnn, shooting in the Abrons Arts Center in the basement was like the perfect spot perfect location! Shoutout to maassai for the tour of Abrons first and foremost. Desde, GENG, and I linked up there to do a quick location scout tour back at the beginning of January 2024, a couple of days before the set day and it was fun we were looking at a few different hallway options and stairwells but the basement’s hallway was the one that we knew for sure we wanted to use. The day of the shoot was legendary in my opinion, we had a couple of homies in PTP pull up to be extras in the scene, they bodied and it was very smooth for me, not too much to handle as far as giving directions. Then of course I have experience with shooting with Desde already because we shot “[Ock Deli](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcVlufcVCBE)” but I could tell that this shoot would be different because of the different directions and just having to do different takes and different types of shots compared to the one-straight natural shot. So that was fun directing them and reassuring them that she was doing a good job! Everyone on set was just so supportive and uplifting, it was high vibrational the whole set. 

GENG, man he’s funny yo, I got to see more of his personality and how youthful he is. It made the set very comfortable to be able to just be myself while staying focused because it was just a safe space. I think my favorite moment during it was doing the one one-on-one shot with Ski dancing. It was very intimate and I don't know I just felt how connected he was to the song through his choreography. Overall, shooting in Abrons Arts Center’s basement was exactly what we envisioned.

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Video w/ Commentary: "Fangs" by KING VISION ULTRA ft. Desde

“It’s honoring yourself in any way you can.” So good & such a beautiful reminder. Can’t wait to hear what’s next for Amal Zenab, seething at the thought of it! Amazing interview! 

![Screen Shot 2024-04-10 at 6.34.37 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2024_04_10_at_6_34_37_AM_424540317d.png)

Before the homie Hattie Lindert takes it away here: I got into [Amal Zenab](https://amalzenab.xyz/) last year, and found her because I listen to everything the producer/guitarist/photographer [Nathan Bajar](https://www.nathanbajar.com/) does. Their 2023 EP called *Safe 'n Sound* pairs Bajar's beats and guitar with Zenab's layered, honeyed voice and comes up with something perfect. It's the kind of producer/artist combo that's so good, I wanted them to become a permanent thing like Ice Spice and Riot. As soon as I heard "Ride" I was like, this is rare chemistry. 

But talking to Zenab (it's her middle name), it turns out she has great taste in producers and wants to explore. Yesterday she shared me an unreleased track produced by [10.4Rog](https://daily.bandcamp.com/lists/10-4-rog-discography-list), who is a friend of mine and a certifiable genius, and she struck synergistic gold again. As she explains in the interview, she works deeply with producers who she appreciates not just as musicians but as people, making real relationships that give the music a richer essence. 

This season she's moving from her home of Queens, NYC, to L.A., to work more with Rog and to tap in with her community she's been building there over the past year as a bicoastal person. Don't worry though, she'll continue to work with Bajar, as well. She told me Bajar and Rog are "my bruddas frfr." It's just, she's expanding her world. 

Her move will be a loss for the New York scene, a gain for L.A., and the music she makes out there will be a blessing to us all. Here is Amal Zenab in conversation with Hattie Lindert, lightly edited for clarity.   

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 588px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=1251345386/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://amalzenab.bandcamp.com/album/safe-n-sound-2">Safe &#39;n Sound by Amal Zenab</a></iframe>

**HL: Safe 'n Sound is gorgeous and I’m curious about your chemistry with Nathan Bajar, how you connected, what you liked about his approach to music, the way you guys worked together…**

AZ: I met Nate at a jam session somewhere in Bushwick, summer of 2022. I pulled up to the jam alone, our mutual friend Evan who goes by 13th Law invited me, and so it was summer of exploration, my summer of being out and about and knowing what it is to immerse myself into uncomfortable experiences. I walked into the session and sang for 20-30 minutes when it started, and then other artists did poetry, singing, rapping, etc. Toward the end of that, I was like OK let me go up again before I head out and meet up with friends. So I went up again, and it was all off the top freestyling. And then I was done, and as I was walking out, Nate stopped me and he was like, “Yo, did you come up with that yourself, off the top?” I was like “Yeah,” and he was like, “That’s crazy, would you want to link up sometime?” And I was like, “Yeah for sure.” I’d heard of him through another friend of ours, and heard his music before, but the thoughts didn’t connect until after the fact. From then, we had our first session on August 10th, and that day I pulled up on him after meeting with someone I was talking to at the time, and was overwhelmed with emotion for them and didn’t really know how to process everything. We didn’t live in the same city and I didn’t know when I would see them again. So I was going into this new experience with Nate full of grief and emotion and just falling for someone and feeling super lovesick. That was the perfect combination to start the journey. Our first session, he also invited our friend Maiya Blainey who pulled up that day. Amazing artist. And you know, I kind of was like, I know you guys don’t know me like that, but I’ve had a day. I just need to get into the booth. And hopefully we can make some beautiful stuff out of it. And that’s how I made “August 10th,” during that first session.

**Sometimes, I guess that’s what it takes, the right people on a crap day.**

The right people who have the skill and ability to channel what you’re feeling. You know, it does take a village to do anything. I’m grateful that by happenstance we were all in the same place at the same time.

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**Was that your introduction to Maiya Blainey too?**

Yeah that was my first time, and she’s so sweet. Very quirky, and eclectic, and vibey. And you know we were all just gauging each other, and we realized we were all fall babies. I believe she’s September, I’m October, and Nate’s November. So the autumn council.

**Is there anything that stood out to you aside from being able to create this great song, about your chemistry together? Or between Maiya and Nate? Or you and Maiya? Or all three of you?**

With Nate, he felt like my music, I don’t know if I would say soulmate, but my musical telepathy twin. With him it was very easy, no expectation, very comfortable. He set the tone with having a safe, open space with me, compared to my past experiences with producers who were very predatory or didn’t have good intentions, especially as a femme artist I was very grateful for that. The more my comfortability grew, the more seamless the process was. We spent August 2022 through February/March 2023 just putting all these finishing touches on this project. And so you know, I’ve never experienced that before. I never wrote songs that fast. And truly having fun, and both of us losing our shit when we hear the demo that we made, being excited about it. Through that new experience we cultivated a beautiful friendship. He’s like a brother to me.

**That’s amazing. You speak about these predatory experiences, and then the surprise about how great it was to work with Nate, is there an ideal environment for you to really make your art flow?**

My non-negotiable is establishing some form of friendship or relationship with the person before diving into working with them. Sometimes artists go into sessions with new producers, and there’s no sense of community building, or actually getting to know each other properly, and dive into it without that interpersonal connection. But I make the best work with people I’m close with. It’s very important for me to be comfortable. In an environment that’s not open, or not judgment free, or accepting of flaws, you’re mentally on edge and it shows in how you process the art. You hold back, in discomfort.

![Screen Shot 2024-04-10 at 6.34.08 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2024_04_10_at_6_34_08_AM_af5eda20b4.png)

**That philosophy, did that come to you when you were young? What was your upbringing with music like?**

Growing up, my parents would play a very diverse selection of music from all over. I was always singing, always in musicals, and choir, and I was in church choir…

**…in Queens?**

Yeah, born and raised. I’m used to being in community with other creatives. As I was growing as a person in my youth, I was enveloped in so many beautiful, interesting lessons through music. I also had the opportunity to sing at Carnegie Hall in like junior year of high school, we sang Duke Ellington’s Sacred Music, and that was a canon event for me. I think people know that music is spiritual, but it’s another thing to truly feel it. That showed me that music was my passion, and that I wanted to do it for the rest of my life. I was studying international affairs, and was on track to be a diplomat, but honestly art is a calling. Just in paying attention to how I feel, in settings where music is around me, if I’m learning music, or freestyling, or anything, it’s just really important for me to feel safe and be surrounded by brilliant minds that you can have energy exchange with. How else can you grow, learn, expand?

**Is there anyone that you’d love to collaborate with that you haven’t gotten the chance to yet? Or an artist you love that you sense you’d have a connection with?**

I would love to work with Mndsgn, Liv.e, Kelela, Solange, Nick Hakim, a lot of alternative R&B or indie artists that I’ve listened to for a long time. I feel like there’s fragments of all of them in what I do, as well.

**Those are incredible artists and I think they definitely come through in your work. What are some of the concepts or ideas that you’re working through in your music right now?**

So I’m working through a lot. I honestly am definitely being intentional with how I write, how it makes me feel, and how it translates to other people. I’m trying to release a song hopefully in another month or so, and I wrote about what’s happening in the world right now. I’m pro freedom, pro Palestine, and as an artist I think we are obligated to talk about injustice. So I wrote a song about that with my friend Moki, he goes by Lion Milk, and I’m excited to bring that into the world. It’s gonna do something, I pray. I hope that in a small way, I can be impactful and get people to think more beyond the superficial. I feel like we’re becoming desensitized, so the song called “Save Us” because I think we need to be saved. From atrocities, and internal atrocities and turmoil. I’m working through life. My inner and outer chaos. And making it tangible because I know other people can relate.

**In a moment like this that feels so bleak, and overwhelming for an individual up against systems causing atrocities, do you have strategies about how to keep making art in the face of these hardships that are going on everyday?**

People underestimate their art, just being in comparison mode, or their perception of what the standard is. I believe that art is anything from a journal entry to releasing your emotions and crying, or just any form of output is art to me. I think that it’s all about being imperfectly consistent. It doesn’t have to look like a full-fledged studio session every day, but I’m neurodivergent also so routine gets mundane, and with that you have to acknowledge that whatever tiny amount you do, it’s art. I journal every day, document every day, through voice memos, or practice my bass…it’s honoring yourself in any way you can. Once you do the release, and contribute that small little thing, you’re freeing up your mind space to when you are ready to create something more tangible it’s easier to enter that flow state. For people that struggle with that, acknowledge that what you think is a standard, does not exist. A tiny little bit of something, a scribble on paper, you honored yourself by doing what you wanted in the moment and that should be enough.

![Screen Shot 2024-04-10 at 6.34.19 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2024_04_10_at_6_34_19_AM_3634039ec5.png)

**That is really good advice. You’re born and raised in Queens, how does the area influence you creatively?**

I’m blessed to be from Queens. A lot of legends are from Queens. There’s a historic neighborhood of Addisleigh Park, and a lot of jazz musician like Duke Ellington, Billie Holiday, and even Muhammad Ali, and Jackie Robinson, Black legends lived in really nice homes in this area. Growing up I listened to A Tribe Called Quest, and Nas, and Nicki Minaj, and all of these Queens icons, on top of pop music, Whitney, Mariah, Michael, Luther, and gospel music. And so I just think that I have a beautiful blend of culture within me. And Queens is the most diverse borough. It’s the largest borough. All the friends I have, I feel like friends are like puzzle pieces to who we are, and with growing up in such a beautiful, diverse place, I have accumulated an encyclopedia of knowledge and tidbits, down to food, and communication, and shared experiences. Being from here, I’im very proud of it. Being a New Yorker you have to grow up fast, and navigate a crazy city at a young age. Tying that into my artistry, and who I am, it’s a big part of me. I also feel like with my roots, you can almost see the theme of Afrocentric-ism, and even Africanism, because that’s my big umbrella. I’m all for the advancement, and the abstract, the ethereal, and growing up spiritually as well, I try to tie that into my work even down to how harmonies feel, or how airy and spacious a song is. As much of a tangent as what I said just was, my whole life I think is puzzle pieces, and the songs are fragments of that. That sounded mad artsy. 

**No, I connected with the puzzle pieces.** 

People from Queens, we have heart. And me as an artist, you’ll see it, you’ll feel it. People who talk to me, feel better after talking to me. I’m aware of my energy. And it can be impactful in a good way. My inner world, and who I am, it shows and reflects in how it makes people feel. I don’t know if that makes sense. Cuz it’s hard, but it’s really important. If we don’t take care of ourself, it’s a downward crumble. But remembering you’re not alone, I struggle a lot. My brain is running a million miles a minute. And remembering that I’m not alone, and so many people that have shared experiences with me that I can learn from, that’s what sustains me and keeps me going. 

**Community is so huge. I don’t know where I am without community. So you’re going to LA tomorrow…**

Yeah I’m working on a song for another release this year. And I’m also moving there this spring. It’s been calling to me. I was bicoastal all last year. So I’m looking forward to not buying a flight back and forth. It will be my Big Girl move. 

**What are you most excited about for this year?**

I’m excited to experience more people, and be in rooms with different energies out there. I really feel like this is the beginning of the uphill climb, and I’m excited to be around my community out there. And grow as an artist, and a person. I’m in my late 20s, so I’m doing the work, and excited to build a beautiful world, someway, somehow, in my artistic expression and I think a change of scenery will do me well. I’m excited for all the beautiful people I’ll cross paths with. This summer’s gonna be lit. 

The Amal Zenab Interview

Mano

The GENG PTP Interview

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New York City photographer Wes Knoll's "Fading Smile" documents Knoll and his friends & associates as they write graffiti, take risky road trips, and become adults in the city, during the roughly 9 year time period stretching from Ratking to Evilgiane. It's amazing and you should [buy it](https://www.wesknoll.com/store/p/milk-dip-cup-92wf6-e23h9).

Knoll got turned onto photography in high school, inspired by Jim Goldberg's "Raised By Wolves," which made him start to see his own life as full of "movie-like characters who needed to be documented." He's been shooting ever since, for all kinds of publications, brands, and most crucially for himself.  

I selected 10 of my fav flicks from "Fading Smile" and we talked about them on the phone for a cool half hour. Enjoy. The following has been edited for clarity, with my part of the interview removed.  

![1.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/1_7a333b338d.png)

This is a model I met at a casting call for this fashion brand Tia Adeola. The reason I wanted to include it is because, part of the book is that it encapsulates what I consider to be an authentic New York upbringing, and part of that is hustling. Sometimes legal sometimes illegal. This is on the legal side of things. Modeling. She had this look that was calling to me, and I think I captured this slight hesitancy or pause in a fast-paced environment. I love the colors, it feels very poignant to me. 

![2.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/2_55cb2f101b.png)

Similar story with Evilgiane. This was several years back, before he became who he is, now. I was actually not hip to him at the time. I was working with some friends, we had started a production company to shoot music videos in order to fund larger projects. We were shooting this video for Bobainee and ppg casper, when Surf Gang was just getting its footing and solidifying its members. Giane was on the set, just keeping to himself, which was in stark contrast to everyone else who was like, showing off money, and getting tattoos on set. Similar to the first photo, something about his presence felt like a standstill moment in an otherwise chaotic environment.

![Screen Shot 2023-12-04 at 8.29.56 PM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_12_04_at_8_29_56_PM_5ca881e9e8.png)

This was a portrait of someone named Matt who I met at a party. Captured him in his element, letting loose. He had a ballet-esque movement to his body, that again, in a chaotic environment, stood out as isolated. The light is an overhead, flashing strobe. It was just luck of the moment that it hit Matt that way. 

![4.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/4_30f9a97894.png)

This is a scan from one of my old blackbooks. Graffiti is an important element to me, an unspoken rite of passage that everyone finds themselves going through. This is a sticker composed of an image from BAT, and ones I used to peel off of surfaces on some fan shit, before I knew that wasn't really kosher. At the time I was a huge fan of Ratking, I thought they  epitomized the culture of downtown New York. I wanted to pay homage to what they did. In my generation, they were the ones who showed what you can do if you set your mind to something. In the bottom right there's an image I added, to make it more of a collage, of REBOE, getting a boost, to climb up to this rooftop in Paris, by JEE BTC, while he had to take care of some beef at the time. I think the Ratking letters were done by Arvid, but the Wiki 93 might have been done by Wiki himself. 

![5.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/5_414e1db25b.png)

Money getting washed. This focuses on the illegal side of what you have to do when you're following your dreams and you don't come from a rich family. This image represents to me the desire to win. This is $50,000 of drug money that had to be brought over to the west coast, where the plug lived. The toothbrush and beer can were naturally there, not staged, and I liked the informalness they offered. This humane aspect. A mysterious narrative begins to form. 

![6.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/6_e2999995e4.png)

This was taken on a road trip, road tripping being a motif throughout the book. This was one of the stops in the Northeast, at a Bates Motel-like establishment where my girlfriend at the time agreed to be a model. This one has an enigmatic feeling to itself that has kind of taken on its own life. 

![7.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/7_55f8713ecd.png)

I love that one. I love the mystery of this, and I'll say, it's not done in Photoshop. It's a real knife. And it is not related to the other image in the book of the man with a question mark scar on his hand. No one got hurt for this photograph. It's magical realism. It looks staged, looks impossible, gravity, knife, hand, but it's not the case. Magic is, to me, the only thing that's real in life. 

![8.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/8_6d779dab2d.png)

This was taken during a drifting event in New Jersey, where people go, and they have teams of cars and they drift, in tandem, and winners are judged on style, control, and synchronicity. It's super loud, super energetic. This shot is from under the bleachers, and you see the smoke from the car exhaust and the tires burning. This was one moment of peace and solitude, with light cascading through. It reminds me of high schoolers sneaking away to find love under the bleachers. The light, captured by the smoke, is encaspulating the desire to reclaim a space as your own, even if it's temporary. 

![9.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/9_8fb5fe72e5.png)

This is a portrait of Neon, who also is a model I met on the street. I thought she looked super badass, super tough. There was something about this one in particular that has so much attitude, personality, beauty, grit, it's like the visual accompaniment of a New York accent. 

![10.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/10_12620566d0.png)

I can't complete this sentence. This sentence needs to be completed for each person. This forces viewers to form their own conclusions, own narratives. I found this in a subway tunnel, and I loved that someone risked their life, their freedom, their safety, their job, to go and write this message. It forces you to ask yourself what you're doing in your life and why. Standing beneath these crazy streets as trains rush past, third rail electricity, workers, whatever you might find, you might not know the reason why, but the feeling that you get is all you need to know you're on the right path. But if I had to answer the question for myself? It's not about fame, or acceptance, it's about the truth. And finding what that truth is for yourself. 

10 Images With Commentary From Wes Knoll's Fading Smile

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Three years ago, H31R’s debut album, [ve​·​loc​·​i​·​ty](https://h31r.bandcamp.com/album/ve-loc-i-ty), landed like an adventurous electronic/hip-hop experiment gone right. Since then, Brooklyn rapper/singer maassai and NJ/NY producer JWords have grown as people, elevated their craft(s), and fused together into a formidable entity.  

Second album HeadSpace is out now, composed of 14 short, utterly unique bops with resolutely introspective lyrics. Lofty and grounded, progressive and relatable...to my ears, it is an instant classic destined to be discovered by future generations.

On zoom, I chatted with H31R while maassai was tucked into a storage closet at work, and JWords blazed a J in her room at home. Topics included the new album, genuine vs. merely proximal community, and Erik Erikson’s eight stages of psychosocial development. 

The following has been edited and condensed for clarity.

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 470px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=4066732360/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/tracklist=false/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://h31r.bandcamp.com/album/headspace">HeadSpace by H31R</a></iframe>

![jwordsmaassai.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/jwordsmaassai_de7cee8800.jpg)

![jwordsselfie.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/jwordsselfie_3de4eef45e.jpg)

**I’ve interviewed JWords [before this](https://finals.blog/posts/Craft-and-Come-Up:-JWords-In-Her-Own-Words), and got some of the H31R origin story then, but can one or both of you please tell me again how you met and started making music together?**

M: We met in 2017 at the Glove (in Brooklyn), we were both on the same bill called “Necessary.” We were fans of each other from that night. I thought it was cool she was playing her beats live, they were electronic, I liked them a lot. And she liked what I was doing. So we kind of knew from that point that we wanted to collab. But we didn’t start cultivating our musical dynamic until later. We became friends first. 

J: A sprinkle to add: I was making beats, but I was more so getting into the live aspects. I wasn’t recording. So it took me a while to send beats to maassai. But we always knew in the future we would make music. And we’re here in the future, now. 

**That’s cool you were active as live performers before you recorded. These days it’s often the other way around.**

J: I be excited to perform live. 

M: Before 2019, I was really a performing artist. If you wanted to hear my music you had to come to my shows. I had dropped some stuff 2014-2015, and then was developing my sound, so you had to come to the show. 

J: I think we were both in that same stage. Performing a lot but not recording a lot. And I always wanted a vocalist. And I was like Oh my god, this is perfect. And we have the same vibe, loving vibe. It’s a great friendship so far. 

M: Aw. 

**Why did you call your group H31R?**

J: We’re both air signs. 

M: I’m a gemini, she’s an aquarius. And it’s a cool play on words. Like heir to the throne. And techno-y, so we added some lil numbers. 

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.55.45 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_55_45_AM_c6006e5f86.png)

**Do you consider yourself heirs to legacies of other musicians or figures – maybe family, maybe cultural or musical figures?**

J: I think what we’re doing is unique and gonna leave a mark. 

M: And that idea of taking up space: what is rightfully our space. We’re collectively making a fusion of musics, that have been created by people around the African diaspora, and honing in on that. We are claiming our space in that. As women of color, women in general. I feel like it make a lot of sense to jack heirs. 

J: This duo is unique and special. If I were younger, I’d be inspired by us. Because I was listening to a lot of duos when I was young: THEESatisfaction, Blu & Exile, Madlib and MF DOOM. So I always wanted this. And now, yes. I’m making all these crazy beats, maassai’s a great rapper, singer, vocalist, and what we are doing is needed. 

M: Yesirski. 

**What was different about recording HeadSpace than ve​·​loc​·​i​·​ty? What changed for both of you individually, and together, between these albums?**

J: A lot changed. ve*loc*i*ty was recorded during the pandemic, and having to work remotely. HeadSpace was moreso like, let’s put this album together. The first album we had to do everything: come up with the name, come up with a whole entity…

M: It’s been a minute. Three years. Every year in your 20s is massive growth. We are in our later 20s, and we were going on our mid 20s when we dropped ve*loc*i*ty, so there’s a lot of coming into our adulthood on this album. Maybe a little less angsty. There’s still grit, but we’ve come to terms with ourselves and who we want to be, who we want to be around, all that. 

J: This transitional phase of becoming higher selves. ve*loc*i*ty is like, yeah, we’re here bitches, boom!

M: Fuck y’all!

J: We entered the group chat!

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.55.14 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_55_14_AM_6d1cfb9e61.png)

**Could you please describe some of the colors, temperatures, moods, textures, or main characteristics of HeadSpace?**

M: Jen loves these types of things. 

J: Colorwise, it gives a lot of blue, sky, dreamy, clouds. That’s one side. There’s two sides of this album. The beginning is more grittier, more textures. The second half is the letting go and the being OK with being uncomfortable, like, if I have to go through this, I’m gonna go through this. 

M: Yeah. As a note, whenever Jen plays me a beat, she usually will describe the beat based on textures and colors. 

J: Emotion. This word could fit this beat. I remember when I showed you “Backwards,” I knew you were gonna like that beat. 

M: One of my favorites, if I never told you that. 

J: Now I’m like I have to keep going crazy! I don’t even know what I did back then. But, well, we continue. 

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**I love “Backwards” as a single, right away I realized the beat slaps harder than before, and like, it’s the H31R sound, but a little more geared to moving the crowd live. Was that intentional?**

M: We are melding better. ve​·​loc​·​i​·​ty was like maassai-and-JWords. We were merging our styles. But this was more us melding. We sound more like an entity. I’m much more comfortable on Jen’s beats, now, too. And yes, we were like, let’s let this be bops, and it’ll be so fun to perform live.  

J: And me, I’m gonna make it bugged out. But I will say “Backwards” to me is more hip-hop, especially with the drop in the beginning. 

M: It drops so strange, though. When it drops, your whole head…ohhh wait. OK we’re back in it.

**That’s the best though. Your music challenges you but locks you in a groove, so you’re fucked up by it, but rocking with it.**
 
M: Exactly. That’s what drew me to JWords beats. Cuz I was also fucked up by it, but it still grooved. I was like, that’s my vibe. 

J: I just be making beats, recording them onto Ableton. And sometimes they’re just jams. A lot of people are perfectionists, but my shit is like it is what it is type vibe. I record a jam and then am like, I’m not gonna even touch it. It was created in the moment so you gotta keep it in the moment. But there is time to go back and organize a beat. But “Backwards” i was just jamming, having a nice night. I was probably drinking. 

M: Shout out the gin. 

J: The gin and tonic. No I don’t get too drunk honestly. 

M: For the record, she’s not an alcoholic. 

**maassai what’s your writing process like? I have vision that you write longhand.**
 
M: I wish. I do have several notebooks. One of my hobbies is buying notebooks with the intention of writing in them. It’s a good practice. It allows you to memorize lyrics better and faster. But a lot of times, because my writing process is so inspired by the world outside, my process starts where I just think of something because I saw something outside. I come up with a bar that inspires my deeply. I’m on the train, and i’m like I gotta write this down. That’s how my process begins, and on the…on the toilet. 

J: Oh you said it. 

M: Vulnerable space. Very personal. 

J: maassai writes bangers on the toilet. 

**In the big picture, how do you both feel about the idea of progression in music, or the topic of progressive music? Is that something you do?**
 
M: I think we do. I think we consider ourselves forward thinking, pushing the mold, pushing the boundaries. Progressing and constantly developing our concept of what it means to make the types of music we make. That’s who we are. Everything is intentional, but also just what we are drawn to. 

J: Looking for change, looking forward to what could be, instead of doing what is. I never thought about, I’m gonna make some different shit. It’s just in me to be like, doing shit my way. What I learned from J Dilla and Madlib is you gotta be yourself, and make the music that naturally comes out of you. We’re both naturally innovative people. 

M: For me, I never felt like I was normal. I never felt like I fit the mold. I danced the beat of my own drum. It just makes sense I would make the type of art I do. 

J: When I got into music, I always wanted to see what I sounded like, you know? A lot of people follow a formula, and even go to school for it. I just do this shit. Obviously it’s good to know scales, but you gotta feel it. Do what you feel. 

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.55.05 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_55_05_AM_8cea76e948.png)

**maassai, what are some of your favorite beats that JWords made on HeadSpace?**

M: “Backwards.” “Right Here.” So many great ones. I love all of these beats. That’s why I decided to get on them. But I also really enjoy “Reflection.” And “Train of Thought.”

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**“Right Here”: the flavor of that song is so particular, it’s about love and lust but it’s so straightforward and challenging. Are you gonna waste my time? Or what? Like that’s what you think is sexy, is not wasting time, getting to the point.**
 
M: It’s definitely coming with some spicy energy. Like, What’s good? I think in general the way I would always want to approach a love song isn’t a stereotypical way. 

J: Anti-love song. 

M: And it’s not anti-, but it’s about empowering myself. And giving myself that power. 

**JWords, what are some of your favorite maassai songs/raps on this album?**

J: “Backwards.” At the time I was going through a lot of growth, and feeling who I wanted to be around. “Backwards” was such a good anthem for that. I’m moving forward while you’re moving backwards, and that’s OK. And then there’s “Train of Thought” where she’s going crazy about self reflection or self realization. One of my favorite bars on that song is, “Haven’t ate dinner yet / but I’m so full of myself I can skip it, yes.” I love that bar. I was like, Ooh! We recorded a lot of songs together, too, so it all felt intertwined. I love “Big Bang,” the lyrics are very powerful, making something out of nothing. I connect with all these songs. “Static.” About realizing you make the change in your life, the change is uncomfortable, but it takes weeks to build up a new routine. I was going through a period where that song was so relevant to my life. 

**“Big Bang” is about generating something from nothing. How does that relate to your life?**

M: Came out the mud. 

J: Growing up, nobody in my family was like, yeah, make music. I had to figure it out myself, no tools, no money for equipment, didn’t really have nothing. But a dream for a better future, which keeps me going forward. 

M: People like us, who don’t come from wealth, don’t come from access to a lot of things, but are making something out of ourselves, this is your mantra. We turned something that was little into something great. That’s the sauce of growing up in the hood. Mantra. 

J: That song is incredible. I relate so hard. 

**It’s a different energy than the Republican idea of bootstrapping, or just trying harder to get ahead in life. What you’re describing doesn’t have that tone of “what’s wrong with you?” This tone is more like self discovery, or pay careful attention to your surroundings…**

J: Believe in your ideas.

M: This is empowering. The Republican idea is shifting blame to people who don’t have access. And by no means are we saying you deserve to be in this predicament, but either way we gonna grind, because we gotta survive at the end of the day.  

**“Reflection” is a very intriguing song, about people mirroring each other. It made me think about my daughter a lot. She is a mirror for everything I do, good and bad, she picks up on everything. But across humanity, we are all showing each other ways to be, or how we can act, what it means to be a society. What was the inspiration for writing that?**

M: I love that.

J: I love that. Everybody is a mirror for each other. If I give you energy, I’m gonna see that energy from you because I just gave it to you. 

M: Facts. That song, I love that you took that from it. Because there is a part where I talk about a family tree, and bring family into it. That song was supposed to be like speaking to yourself, but I do think that mirrors are endless. We mirror each other, our families, our communities, our environments. 

**“Shadow Self” asks a very good question, I think, which is, Who are you when you’re alone? When you put that question back on yourselves, what are some of the answers you come up with?**

M: Without being seen, like just with myself, I am a human being. A spiritual being living a human experience. Filled with complex emotions. Makes mistakes. Tries to do right. I really do try to work on being who I am, with others. Presenting in my truth. 

J: I’m pretty emotional. Very affectionate. Other than that, when I’m truly by myself, in my own head space, I think about things. I think about things I could have done differently or things I’m doing, and I try to shake them off. It’s a human experience in this everyday life, having to take care of my body and myself. A lot of life experiences will put you on square one again. You think you know it all, until you don’t. And you have to restart. There’s always a rebirth going on. Always dying and being reborn again. Through experiences and hardships. I enjoy going through things, because I learn a lot, and I know what to do a little more, with every year that passes.  

**You said you both changed a lot in the last three years. According to the psychologist Erik Erikson, in this phase of your life you’re establishing what it means to have intimacy and relationships with others, versus falling into isolation. You’re trying to get to know other people, be in community, learn what it means to share yourself. That’s something I hear on the album. Does that sound like your phase of psychosocial development right now?**

M: Yeah. A lot of times I feel like an alien. So that’s an ongoing feat, in my life. Establishing intimacy and being able to deepen my dynamics with others. And finding community for real. In a real, genuine way. A lot of times community is not intimacy. I’ve made the mistake of confusing those two things. People you frequent or are around you, confusing that for real trust, but there’s not actually trust established. So I think so. 

J: Once you get to know yourself, and know your boundaries, there’s people for every place and thing. Once you start knowing yourself, you know who you can party with, and who you can tell you’re going through something. 

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.54.42 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_54_42_AM_749a860042.png)

**That psychologist would maybe say in your teenage years you’re finding out what your voice sounds like, and in your 20s you’re putting it in an avatar, and in different scenarios, and testing socially what happens, what’s going on. I think your music might soundtrack that, in a way that’s really aware of your own experience, and really rare in terms of how analytical you are of internal thought processes and feelings. I think it’s gonna make the music endure for people who are going through this phase of life.**
 
J: I can agree with that. 

M: What do they say about your 30s?

**That phase lasts a long time, until your 60s. Your 30s into middle age, your mission is to either generate, or stagnate. It’s to produce output, cultural, social, bring things into the world, have kids, not have kids, have ideological kids, contribute, or…not.**
 
J: Like you went through all this, what are you gonna do with it?

M: I like that. 

J: Yeah that’s how I think about my 30s, you’re a professional and you’re ten years into what you’re doing. I’m gonna go the route of contributing something, by creating music. 

**What would you like to see more of in music?**

M: I am a fan of the fact that women have taken over rap in recent years. And are owning their bodies. I would love to have different representations of that, and how it’s displayed. More queer women, talking about their relationships with other queer people, and not just centering men. The way that we’ve been talking about ownership of ourselves is cool, but I would like to see different sides. That’s something that I would look forward to. 

J: In the next few years, there’s gonna be more representation. I want to see more people being themselves. Not following a formula, because of optics. It’s cool to see more people making their own genuine music, what they truly feel inside. And it’s good to express that to kids, too, so I’m putting it out there for the next generation. 


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