Big up the homie Vivian Medithi for this casual, musically deep interview with the other homie, Finals selector and contributor, the mighty and multitalented swoozydolphin from Detroit. If you slept on swoozy's Omnibus album this summer, under his real name (sort of) Toriin, you lost. But it's not too late to tap into one of the most emotional, rangy, chill-yet-knocking projects of the year. I find it to be a hardwon triumph, a perfect version of his work in this particular wavy vocal/production chamber, great for soundtracking rough moments in life where you still gotta swag it out and survive with style. Real end of the year list material if you like rap, dance, and shoegaze music. And true to his prolific nature swoozy's already got more jams out, more DJ mixes, and everything's fire. Do your googles!

Vivian: What do you usually watch on youtube?

Swoozy: A lot of geartube unfortunately. Music gear, and ambient videos. I’m gonna put one on in the background right now because why not. Youtube is hard lately.

Gear videos like, I bought this new thing and here’s what it does?

Pretty much. Or here’s the technique we used in the ‘80s and how to use it in a modern studio.

Do you find that platform agnostic technique transfer of using old techniques on new platforms compelling? Or is that just something you watched recently?

I think it’s good. I jump from platform to platform. The nature of the job is I’m always getting familiar with something new. Recently a kid at work who was 19 wanted to get into beats, and I got him Ableton. But he wants to make beats that people don’t make tutorials for on Ableton. So I’m sending him FL studio so he understands that if you know what you’re doing, it doesn’t matter the platform.

A while ago you wrote something for Finals about making artifacts of sonic space in terms of recording. It’s interesting to think about the transliteration of these techniques from the 80s to now. In some ways you can’t get back that thing that was happening in that medium.

It’s cool because we’re in an era where the fidelity is not the issue. And virtual instruments make most things accessible. The harder thing is the spatial awareness and the mindset. Really not much has changed but our understanding has changed. People will make a song entirely in the box, all synthesis, AI vocals, and that point, where is the understanding of some real analog thing coming from? It’s interesting how far we’ve come. And how far we haven’t come. Cuz like Lazer Dim is raw. But if you could make beats like that in the ‘70s, and put it on two track, four track tape machine, and dude ripped that, it would still sound like Lazer Dim.

I’m sure everyone feels this way now, but there is a lot of rehashing across mediums. I think we see it heavily in music. It’s interesting to hear you say that because it’s like thinking about it in the reverse.

People been rehashing forever. Nothing new under the sun. Also means nobody’s new in coming up with original verses, original ideas. Everything is being accelerated now. I was watching a documentary about the blues in the Mississippi Delta, and this is not a knock on any of the original bluesmen and blueswomen, but you can tell they’re all pulling from the same well, and this is the ur, OG American pop music. Everything comes from that. You know the Lil Peep 2 thing? There was a blues guy named 1 and 2, that was how people referred to them. Sonny Boy. There was a Sonny Boy in Chicago, and a Sonny Boy in Mississippi. And they were like, OK, we can’t do this. So everyone knew if you were talking about Sonny Boy 2, you were talking about Sonny Boy from Mississippi. And his music probably didn’t sound too much different either. And that was 100 years ago.

My grandparents have the blues, I have dark plugg.

Basically.

Speaking of unoriginal people rehashing stuff, you had a tweet recently that was like “every Deftones sample/cover is better than the OG. That band sucks and I need people to be honest.” How do you feel about Deftones, swoozy?

I like some of the stuff. I mean, I don’t want to draw the ire of Chino Moreno’s fans. Deftones, it’s fine. I feel like we all have way too rosy of an idea of nu metal and posthardcore, and post-grunge world. It wasn’t like the stuff was great or new at the time, it just sort of lasted. They had some slaps, but Deftones versus Smashing Pumpkins? Get out of here. When I listen to people who interpolate and take Deftones further, I’m like yeah this is good music. When I listen to Deftones 80% of the time I’m like, cool, this sounds like 90s nu metal. I feel like that’s more my taste. But also I don’t know, I don’t feel like we gotta retread the grunge/post-nu metal.

We don’t have to talk about Deftones again. I know you are somebody who is interested in somewhat weird and esoteric music, I know you operate within genres that are fairly commercial, and work with people who are maybe more digestible like RXKNephew, or Dazegxd, or gum.mp3, people who are making, I don’t want to say any less rigorous or interesting work, but more accessible. Where does that impulse stem from for you?

In terms of being esoteric, I have a lot of interest and a lot of knowledge I’ve picked up, and it feels like a disservice to be like…I have all these things I could take from, and people I can reach out to… ANd if I hone in on one thing I get bored really fast.

How did you first start making music?

That’s hard. It’s got an indefinite answer. The raw answer is i was 3 or 4 and learned how to whistle, and kept my mom up all night. At some point the local community college had piano lessons for kids, but I never stuck with it. But around 12 i was really interested in playing instruments. Bass guitar called to me. So i started picking up bass guitar and have been doing music since. DJing shortly after, producing around the same time.

What was the transition from instruments to a DAW like for you?

I came up with the DAW. There’s always been a computer right next to me. Even when I got my first bass, and first interface when I was 13, I was tracking it to a rudimentary protools. The thing that made it come into maturity was learning more analog stuff, music theory, chord voicings, and then the DAW makes more sense because I know music better.

When you moved from playing instruments to composing your own music, what kind were you doing? People you were emulating? Sound or effect you were trying to go for?

At the beginning, I was just playing around. Eventually I did some Dilla, ‘90s hip hop type thing. That was a fun practice, because I was like I understand this music I love. Then I started making stuff I thought sounded good regardless of style. But early influences were Dilla, more guitar stuff like MBV, Drop Nineteens, Victor Wooten. He had this sick six string bass.

Cool to hear you talk about MBV, because I can hear their love for reverb in the way you approach your music.

I’ve been really interested in the lyricism of the shoegaze movement, or lack of lyricism, like suggestions that get stuck in my head. Like what does it mean? There might be 12 words int he song but I know how it makes me feel.

A lot of rap I like lately whether dark plugg, or Quavo and Lana Del Rey, we’re moving away from overly constructed lyrics into something more direct and simple. Emotion coming much more from tone and delivery than content of what is being said.

I fuck with it. I’m not a great lyricist. And that’s the zeitgeisty thing going on, so I”m like maybe I should put out some vocal stuff again. I’ve never been an “i’m like this and they’re like that” rapper.” A lot of rap songwriting now is being cool, doing a vibe, maybe it’s being esoteric, but maybe I don’t have a lot to say about wearing designer or driving fast cars because I don’t do that.

I don’t think of your lyrics as esoteric. You’re not Ab-Soul. Rapping from the perspective of an astronomical body. Tomu was texting me the other night about Bad Dayz Good Jokez.

I”m really interested in turns of phrases and putting words together. I come up with bars in a roundabout way, I’ll write down words or phrases that I like, and be like, how can i make a song out of this? I’ve been listening to melvin van peebles a lot more lately. You really get that he was a writer. His songs are some classic shit that a black guy in the 70s would do, talking jive but making it way different, rock, jazz, that shit is inspiring.

What do you take away from that?

Atmosphere. There’s some direct influence, but I’m not about to record a soul orchestra. But the lyrical parts, where he puts you in a mode of stories told from people who were on the streets. He can make you feel like this is a song from someone who has been there.

When we’re talking about lyrics, are you producing and then writing a melody? What’s your process?

It’s usually a really long process. I make the beats quick, I have 100s that just sit. When it comes time to make an album, I write to that, and freestyle. Omnibus, the beats were made in a week and a half. I had more of a hands on process, that was taking music that wasn’t even completely done, and I was writing the lyrics around the same time. The fun part for me that I’m getting into, is when I’m in the process, I’ve been feeling more comfortable looping stuff, making stuff into a song. Before, I was trying to push everything through. Now i’m more interested in scaling back. Where would I want the hook again? Would I want the beat again, here? LIke a radio song.

What feels different about the process when you’re working on everything in such a short span?

I’ll just make an album when I’m really down bad in life, because I feel that thing Toni Morrison talks about, like when the world goes to shit, you go to work, becuase you’re not going to take it lying down. Omnibus was way faster, and also things were kind of shitty, but i felt more focused. So I guess the energy came from the focus, I guess. Considering everything around us, it’s a lot going on. That’s why I went by my own name, not entirely my own name, but i think this is me. I really put it together, this is what I think, how I feel. Versus before it was halfway, or 80 or 90 percent of the way to that.

That 10 to 20 percent difference of swoozydolphin and Toriin, where is that difference?

It has to do with the range. Swoozydolphin is like me being a producer. Engineer, yeah. DJ, yeah. But mostly it’s me making sounds. With Toriin, it’s the sounds, but I also had something to say, stuff to talk about, and investment that even if the music doesn’t go far, it represents me. I put out like 20 albums. But this one was like, I stand behind it as myself, not totally, because that’s a weird thing to do, but i went and played my guitar, made some dance beats, made some hip hop, and I think the songs will make sense.

For sure. The headline will be “swoozydolphin is not standing on business.” Cuz what do you mean you don’t stand behind it?

I stand behind it!

Gum.mp3 is on here, and you were on his project earlier this year. I really fw both those songs.

Those two tracks are kind of related in that they’re both old. Gum is bro. I just did a mix for his show coming out soon. We make music. We send stuff both ways. And we’ll have stuff that has been sitting for a while. The one on his album, he sent chords and a few drums, and I made it a juke thing, and it’s been sitting since 2021. The next year he sent me the rough draft of his album to master, and he was like, it’s time. This one, the one on mine, it came from a pack we were making to build out for somebody, and I think he sent it, but they probably didn’t get back. It was sitting on my hard drive, and neither of us had plans for it. I was like, I want to use this.

How do you pick what old stuff to include next to what new stuff you’re recording in a fast time frame?

I don’t know it’s just the feel of it. Most of Omnibus was new. The old ones that were used, were off the feel. The new ones, I knew where the sonic world was at. And you gotta exhaust all options. So I went back to listen to old beats to see if I was missing anything.

Was there any particular song that came together very fast, or took the longest?

The hardest one was probably either Clearinghouse, because I didn’t know what to do vocally, and I gave up and did dance music shit, or Float, because it was really early and I didn’t know I was making an album, just wanted to make a song that was comfortable. And I freestyled the whole thing, and landed on some themes that I worked on over the whole shit. The fastest was Rotation, I did that in 30 minutes.

When you say Float felt comfortable, what feels comfortable about that song to you?

I don’t know if everyone gets for it, but I got the vibe I was going for. From the mixing, to everything. It’s relaxed, but it knocks. I don’t have the lyrical aspiration to point to other stuff, I want them to mean something to me and other people. Float was like, I wasn’t trying to get too personal, but I still wanted to make something that meant something.

Sometimes do you think people get the impression that your music is more tossed off than it is?

Maybe. This album, it was raw vocals. Auto tune for sure, but I didn’t pitch it up. I didn’t obscure it too much. And it wasn’t like, nothing phrases. There’s writing going on.

There’s distortion, but it’s not to obscure things. It’s more atmospheric. Versus in the service of hiding stuff, or making it more difficult to hear what’s being communicated.

There’s a continuousness, to the washed out vocals to the dry vocals. I like the dry vocals. Dean Blunt does that a lot, Doris does that a lot. Really just them talking into their phone sometimes. But sometimes I do my thing with auto tune, reverb, and distortion.

What is the same between your DJing and the music you make?

The distance is closing. DJing, I like it not being my voice. I like going all these different places, that might be really different. I came up with a term for my DJing which is “extended format.” That means, I’m gonna play whatever. Go beyond what you’re comfortable with. And it’s gonna make sense in the mix. With my music, it’s all me. So there’s not anywhere to point to. I would like to point to other places sometimes. Lately I think they’re merging. I’ve been DJIng more of my own stuff. And in my music I’m getting better at referencing.

When you’re thinking about what to point to in your DJ sets, how do you know what to select?

In a lot of ways it’s methodical, but it’s also different every time. I keep crates. I came up under OG great DJs, like Mike Huckaby, and all the DJs of Detroit who are here, and of yesteryear. So I keep crates. That’s the methodical part. But it gets real free associative when I’m doing it. And feeding off the crowd. I might play a rock song, or a ‘90s hip hop song, or Lazer Dim, but I quickly go where I want to go. When you start a set, you want to lay down ground rules.

What are your go-to ground rules?

It’s probably going to be fast, probably going to mix fast. I”m going to go a lot of places, a lot of times. And play stuff people haven’t heard. I don’t play familiar music. And I try not to play tracks again, really.