Three years ago, H31R’s debut album, [ve​·​loc​·​i​·​ty](https://h31r.bandcamp.com/album/ve-loc-i-ty), landed like an adventurous electronic/hip-hop experiment gone right. Since then, Brooklyn rapper/singer maassai and NJ/NY producer JWords have grown as people, elevated their craft(s), and fused together into a formidable entity.  

Second album HeadSpace is out now, composed of 14 short, utterly unique bops with resolutely introspective lyrics. Lofty and grounded, progressive and relatable...to my ears, it is an instant classic destined to be discovered by future generations.

On zoom, I chatted with H31R while maassai was tucked into a storage closet at work, and JWords blazed a J in her room at home. Topics included the new album, genuine vs. merely proximal community, and Erik Erikson’s eight stages of psychosocial development. 

The following has been edited and condensed for clarity.

<iframe style="border: 0; width: 350px; height: 470px;" src="https://bandcamp.com/EmbeddedPlayer/album=4066732360/size=large/bgcol=ffffff/linkcol=0687f5/tracklist=false/transparent=true/" seamless><a href="https://h31r.bandcamp.com/album/headspace">HeadSpace by H31R</a></iframe>

![jwordsmaassai.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/jwordsmaassai_de7cee8800.jpg)

![jwordsselfie.jpg](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/jwordsselfie_3de4eef45e.jpg)

**I’ve interviewed JWords [before this](https://finals.blog/posts/Craft-and-Come-Up:-JWords-In-Her-Own-Words), and got some of the H31R origin story then, but can one or both of you please tell me again how you met and started making music together?**

M: We met in 2017 at the Glove (in Brooklyn), we were both on the same bill called “Necessary.” We were fans of each other from that night. I thought it was cool she was playing her beats live, they were electronic, I liked them a lot. And she liked what I was doing. So we kind of knew from that point that we wanted to collab. But we didn’t start cultivating our musical dynamic until later. We became friends first. 

J: A sprinkle to add: I was making beats, but I was more so getting into the live aspects. I wasn’t recording. So it took me a while to send beats to maassai. But we always knew in the future we would make music. And we’re here in the future, now. 

**That’s cool you were active as live performers before you recorded. These days it’s often the other way around.**

J: I be excited to perform live. 

M: Before 2019, I was really a performing artist. If you wanted to hear my music you had to come to my shows. I had dropped some stuff 2014-2015, and then was developing my sound, so you had to come to the show. 

J: I think we were both in that same stage. Performing a lot but not recording a lot. And I always wanted a vocalist. And I was like Oh my god, this is perfect. And we have the same vibe, loving vibe. It’s a great friendship so far. 

M: Aw. 

**Why did you call your group H31R?**

J: We’re both air signs. 

M: I’m a gemini, she’s an aquarius. And it’s a cool play on words. Like heir to the throne. And techno-y, so we added some lil numbers. 

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.55.45 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_55_45_AM_c6006e5f86.png)

**Do you consider yourself heirs to legacies of other musicians or figures – maybe family, maybe cultural or musical figures?**

J: I think what we’re doing is unique and gonna leave a mark. 

M: And that idea of taking up space: what is rightfully our space. We’re collectively making a fusion of musics, that have been created by people around the African diaspora, and honing in on that. We are claiming our space in that. As women of color, women in general. I feel like it make a lot of sense to jack heirs. 

J: This duo is unique and special. If I were younger, I’d be inspired by us. Because I was listening to a lot of duos when I was young: THEESatisfaction, Blu & Exile, Madlib and MF DOOM. So I always wanted this. And now, yes. I’m making all these crazy beats, maassai’s a great rapper, singer, vocalist, and what we are doing is needed. 

M: Yesirski. 

**What was different about recording HeadSpace than ve​·​loc​·​i​·​ty? What changed for both of you individually, and together, between these albums?**

J: A lot changed. ve*loc*i*ty was recorded during the pandemic, and having to work remotely. HeadSpace was moreso like, let’s put this album together. The first album we had to do everything: come up with the name, come up with a whole entity…

M: It’s been a minute. Three years. Every year in your 20s is massive growth. We are in our later 20s, and we were going on our mid 20s when we dropped ve*loc*i*ty, so there’s a lot of coming into our adulthood on this album. Maybe a little less angsty. There’s still grit, but we’ve come to terms with ourselves and who we want to be, who we want to be around, all that. 

J: This transitional phase of becoming higher selves. ve*loc*i*ty is like, yeah, we’re here bitches, boom!

M: Fuck y’all!

J: We entered the group chat!

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.55.14 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_55_14_AM_6d1cfb9e61.png)

**Could you please describe some of the colors, temperatures, moods, textures, or main characteristics of HeadSpace?**

M: Jen loves these types of things. 

J: Colorwise, it gives a lot of blue, sky, dreamy, clouds. That’s one side. There’s two sides of this album. The beginning is more grittier, more textures. The second half is the letting go and the being OK with being uncomfortable, like, if I have to go through this, I’m gonna go through this. 

M: Yeah. As a note, whenever Jen plays me a beat, she usually will describe the beat based on textures and colors. 

J: Emotion. This word could fit this beat. I remember when I showed you “Backwards,” I knew you were gonna like that beat. 

M: One of my favorites, if I never told you that. 

J: Now I’m like I have to keep going crazy! I don’t even know what I did back then. But, well, we continue. 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OhgoOpvMJms?si=zomiiUR49D3YFsMs" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

**I love “Backwards” as a single, right away I realized the beat slaps harder than before, and like, it’s the H31R sound, but a little more geared to moving the crowd live. Was that intentional?**

M: We are melding better. ve​·​loc​·​i​·​ty was like maassai-and-JWords. We were merging our styles. But this was more us melding. We sound more like an entity. I’m much more comfortable on Jen’s beats, now, too. And yes, we were like, let’s let this be bops, and it’ll be so fun to perform live.  

J: And me, I’m gonna make it bugged out. But I will say “Backwards” to me is more hip-hop, especially with the drop in the beginning. 

M: It drops so strange, though. When it drops, your whole head…ohhh wait. OK we’re back in it.

**That’s the best though. Your music challenges you but locks you in a groove, so you’re fucked up by it, but rocking with it.**
 
M: Exactly. That’s what drew me to JWords beats. Cuz I was also fucked up by it, but it still grooved. I was like, that’s my vibe. 

J: I just be making beats, recording them onto Ableton. And sometimes they’re just jams. A lot of people are perfectionists, but my shit is like it is what it is type vibe. I record a jam and then am like, I’m not gonna even touch it. It was created in the moment so you gotta keep it in the moment. But there is time to go back and organize a beat. But “Backwards” i was just jamming, having a nice night. I was probably drinking. 

M: Shout out the gin. 

J: The gin and tonic. No I don’t get too drunk honestly. 

M: For the record, she’s not an alcoholic. 

**maassai what’s your writing process like? I have vision that you write longhand.**
 
M: I wish. I do have several notebooks. One of my hobbies is buying notebooks with the intention of writing in them. It’s a good practice. It allows you to memorize lyrics better and faster. But a lot of times, because my writing process is so inspired by the world outside, my process starts where I just think of something because I saw something outside. I come up with a bar that inspires my deeply. I’m on the train, and i’m like I gotta write this down. That’s how my process begins, and on the…on the toilet. 

J: Oh you said it. 

M: Vulnerable space. Very personal. 

J: maassai writes bangers on the toilet. 

**In the big picture, how do you both feel about the idea of progression in music, or the topic of progressive music? Is that something you do?**
 
M: I think we do. I think we consider ourselves forward thinking, pushing the mold, pushing the boundaries. Progressing and constantly developing our concept of what it means to make the types of music we make. That’s who we are. Everything is intentional, but also just what we are drawn to. 

J: Looking for change, looking forward to what could be, instead of doing what is. I never thought about, I’m gonna make some different shit. It’s just in me to be like, doing shit my way. What I learned from J Dilla and Madlib is you gotta be yourself, and make the music that naturally comes out of you. We’re both naturally innovative people. 

M: For me, I never felt like I was normal. I never felt like I fit the mold. I danced the beat of my own drum. It just makes sense I would make the type of art I do. 

J: When I got into music, I always wanted to see what I sounded like, you know? A lot of people follow a formula, and even go to school for it. I just do this shit. Obviously it’s good to know scales, but you gotta feel it. Do what you feel. 

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.55.05 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_55_05_AM_8cea76e948.png)

**maassai, what are some of your favorite beats that JWords made on HeadSpace?**

M: “Backwards.” “Right Here.” So many great ones. I love all of these beats. That’s why I decided to get on them. But I also really enjoy “Reflection.” And “Train of Thought.”

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VndAj9kxGmA?si=DhixTEbP1R2IEKFn" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

**“Right Here”: the flavor of that song is so particular, it’s about love and lust but it’s so straightforward and challenging. Are you gonna waste my time? Or what? Like that’s what you think is sexy, is not wasting time, getting to the point.**
 
M: It’s definitely coming with some spicy energy. Like, What’s good? I think in general the way I would always want to approach a love song isn’t a stereotypical way. 

J: Anti-love song. 

M: And it’s not anti-, but it’s about empowering myself. And giving myself that power. 

**JWords, what are some of your favorite maassai songs/raps on this album?**

J: “Backwards.” At the time I was going through a lot of growth, and feeling who I wanted to be around. “Backwards” was such a good anthem for that. I’m moving forward while you’re moving backwards, and that’s OK. And then there’s “Train of Thought” where she’s going crazy about self reflection or self realization. One of my favorite bars on that song is, “Haven’t ate dinner yet / but I’m so full of myself I can skip it, yes.” I love that bar. I was like, Ooh! We recorded a lot of songs together, too, so it all felt intertwined. I love “Big Bang,” the lyrics are very powerful, making something out of nothing. I connect with all these songs. “Static.” About realizing you make the change in your life, the change is uncomfortable, but it takes weeks to build up a new routine. I was going through a period where that song was so relevant to my life. 

**“Big Bang” is about generating something from nothing. How does that relate to your life?**

M: Came out the mud. 

J: Growing up, nobody in my family was like, yeah, make music. I had to figure it out myself, no tools, no money for equipment, didn’t really have nothing. But a dream for a better future, which keeps me going forward. 

M: People like us, who don’t come from wealth, don’t come from access to a lot of things, but are making something out of ourselves, this is your mantra. We turned something that was little into something great. That’s the sauce of growing up in the hood. Mantra. 

J: That song is incredible. I relate so hard. 

**It’s a different energy than the Republican idea of bootstrapping, or just trying harder to get ahead in life. What you’re describing doesn’t have that tone of “what’s wrong with you?” This tone is more like self discovery, or pay careful attention to your surroundings…**

J: Believe in your ideas.

M: This is empowering. The Republican idea is shifting blame to people who don’t have access. And by no means are we saying you deserve to be in this predicament, but either way we gonna grind, because we gotta survive at the end of the day.  

**“Reflection” is a very intriguing song, about people mirroring each other. It made me think about my daughter a lot. She is a mirror for everything I do, good and bad, she picks up on everything. But across humanity, we are all showing each other ways to be, or how we can act, what it means to be a society. What was the inspiration for writing that?**

M: I love that.

J: I love that. Everybody is a mirror for each other. If I give you energy, I’m gonna see that energy from you because I just gave it to you. 

M: Facts. That song, I love that you took that from it. Because there is a part where I talk about a family tree, and bring family into it. That song was supposed to be like speaking to yourself, but I do think that mirrors are endless. We mirror each other, our families, our communities, our environments. 

**“Shadow Self” asks a very good question, I think, which is, Who are you when you’re alone? When you put that question back on yourselves, what are some of the answers you come up with?**

M: Without being seen, like just with myself, I am a human being. A spiritual being living a human experience. Filled with complex emotions. Makes mistakes. Tries to do right. I really do try to work on being who I am, with others. Presenting in my truth. 

J: I’m pretty emotional. Very affectionate. Other than that, when I’m truly by myself, in my own head space, I think about things. I think about things I could have done differently or things I’m doing, and I try to shake them off. It’s a human experience in this everyday life, having to take care of my body and myself. A lot of life experiences will put you on square one again. You think you know it all, until you don’t. And you have to restart. There’s always a rebirth going on. Always dying and being reborn again. Through experiences and hardships. I enjoy going through things, because I learn a lot, and I know what to do a little more, with every year that passes.  

**You said you both changed a lot in the last three years. According to the psychologist Erik Erikson, in this phase of your life you’re establishing what it means to have intimacy and relationships with others, versus falling into isolation. You’re trying to get to know other people, be in community, learn what it means to share yourself. That’s something I hear on the album. Does that sound like your phase of psychosocial development right now?**

M: Yeah. A lot of times I feel like an alien. So that’s an ongoing feat, in my life. Establishing intimacy and being able to deepen my dynamics with others. And finding community for real. In a real, genuine way. A lot of times community is not intimacy. I’ve made the mistake of confusing those two things. People you frequent or are around you, confusing that for real trust, but there’s not actually trust established. So I think so. 

J: Once you get to know yourself, and know your boundaries, there’s people for every place and thing. Once you start knowing yourself, you know who you can party with, and who you can tell you’re going through something. 

![Screen Shot 2023-11-16 at 9.54.42 AM.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/Screen_Shot_2023_11_16_at_9_54_42_AM_749a860042.png)

**That psychologist would maybe say in your teenage years you’re finding out what your voice sounds like, and in your 20s you’re putting it in an avatar, and in different scenarios, and testing socially what happens, what’s going on. I think your music might soundtrack that, in a way that’s really aware of your own experience, and really rare in terms of how analytical you are of internal thought processes and feelings. I think it’s gonna make the music endure for people who are going through this phase of life.**
 
J: I can agree with that. 

M: What do they say about your 30s?

**That phase lasts a long time, until your 60s. Your 30s into middle age, your mission is to either generate, or stagnate. It’s to produce output, cultural, social, bring things into the world, have kids, not have kids, have ideological kids, contribute, or…not.**
 
J: Like you went through all this, what are you gonna do with it?

M: I like that. 

J: Yeah that’s how I think about my 30s, you’re a professional and you’re ten years into what you’re doing. I’m gonna go the route of contributing something, by creating music. 

**What would you like to see more of in music?**

M: I am a fan of the fact that women have taken over rap in recent years. And are owning their bodies. I would love to have different representations of that, and how it’s displayed. More queer women, talking about their relationships with other queer people, and not just centering men. The way that we’ve been talking about ownership of ourselves is cool, but I would like to see different sides. That’s something that I would look forward to. 

J: In the next few years, there’s gonna be more representation. I want to see more people being themselves. Not following a formula, because of optics. It’s cool to see more people making their own genuine music, what they truly feel inside. And it’s good to express that to kids, too, so I’m putting it out there for the next generation. 


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21 QU35710N5 4 H31R

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Finals' events series Stakes Is Low is back for the fourth time on Sunday 10/29 and it's gonna be lit. We have switched venues (much love to our former home Cafe Erzulie) but remain a free Brooklyn party. This installment is hosted by [Jupiter Disco](https://www.jupiterdisco.com/) -- a sci fi bar with a bangin system, small dancefloor, and wheelchair accessibility.  

Headliners are [Tomu DJ](https://www.finals.blog/posts/HALF-MOON-BAE:-A-CONVERSATION-WITH-TOMU-DJ) and [kimdollars1](https://www.finals.blog/posts/The-kimdollars1-Interview), both of whom produced some of the best music of 2023. Click those hyperlinks to read their Finals interviews, conducted by Vivian Medithi and myself. Opening the evening will be myself and Mano from our sister blog [No Bells](https://nobells.blog/), and we will be trying to go b2b in some shape, form, or fashion. Hopefully we will be able to record the sets and post them afterward, but that depends on us remembering to bring a zoom mic and being savvy enough to figure out where to plug it in, what the levels are, etc.

To catch up with Stakes Is Low so far please listen to the mixes above. If anyone wants to DJ another edition of Stakes Is Low, please email rumoredtobeamongthebest@gmail.com. For an idea of who we like to book, consider our past DJs: Arielle Lana Lejarde, Alphonse Pierre, Mano Sundaresan, swoozydolphin, DJ Houseplants, and motherfucking Pulitzer Prize winning author Hua Hsu. We love booking writers as DJs, and we love firsts, so no experience = no problem (but it would be good if you could demonstrate some kind of ability to blend or play songs in a thoughtful sequence). It's also my ambition to make these parties all ages at some point, and I am investigating other venues that could make that so (Bed Stuy Art House, Trans Pecos, etc.). 

Show up on the 29th if you can, wear a costume if you want (Halloween is the best holiday), and I hope you enjoy the music and feel the realness of the Finals family. For those who have been rocking with me since I used to throw monthly parties in Seattle, [BAD RAP](https://64.media.tumblr.com/a4bdf21e4c84a853201693f30aaac4d3/tumblr_n5s0mtx8ZH1qdkr7no1_500.jpg) and [FRFR](https://www.kexp.org/read/2017/6/21/midnight-in-a-perfect-world-fr-fr-mixed-by-matson-hansmjustin/), Stakes Is Low is very much a continuation of those nights. For those who know me since I moved to NY eight years ago, or since I started Finals in 2020, know this: as saturated as NY is with DJs, and with infinite respect for the music scene here, I wouldn't do this if I didn't think it was needed. Unpretentious to the utmost, slamming sounds always, a prosocial place for ideas and trying things. Based off blogging but making waves IRL. Stakes Is Low but I swear to god we will be giving it 100%!

Stakes Is Low Is Back at a New Venue

An Interview with Ribbon Stage's Jolie M-A

![finality_white.png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/finality_white_73512f9728.png)

Fall is here and I'm really dressing. Shorts and long sleeves baby. The combination of the gods. What are you wearing this fall? After splurging on an 18 East oxford the other day (if you call the store you can buy from the warehouse; they aren't online yet), I'm officially buying exactly zero shit this season. I have all the lightweight outerwear I need, and some Kiko Asics I mostly kept on ice since last xmas. I'm good. 

I think if there is any trend I am into this season, it's prep. Not that it represents a drastically different way for me to dress, but I will say that currently I have the capability and desire to wear a collared shirt every day of the week, which is fairly preppy to me. The oxford I recently bought was a double: I bought it in black and I have another identical one in pink. The rest of my rotation is a third oxford, two rugbies, and two Monitaly "Batman" shirts ([this size small on grailed is a steal at $64](https://www.grailed.com/listings/39848281-monitaly-monitaly-brown-batman-shirt-small?g_aidx=Listing_production&g_aqid=aff0495fc4dffe9898e9ec6ae1664c53)). They all look good with shorts and also with my colder weather rotation of baggy long pants. 

It's funny, we were upstate the other weekend with a serious New York City Fashion Family, and at one point I noticed all of us were wearing collared shirts. Like, button downs. And none of us just "happened" to be dressing that way,  either: we were all super psyched on our collared shirts. They're indicative of one of the key touchpoints in menswear and womenswear right now, a shared prep moment. And I'm pro that, especially financially, because the prep wardrobe is something that looks good beat to shit and can be bought relatively cheaply on eBay. 

I did have to laugh, though, when I noticed all us discerning "individuals" wearing the same stuff. A lot of times clothes are marketed to us to enhance our "personal styles," as if we are all way out on some specific limb, headed into undiscovered territory, figuring ourselves out. We internalize that myth to degrees. Then one day you look around and your whole friend group is wearing the same thing and you have to laugh at the conformity. 

It's nothing new, of course, dressing like your cohort. Style tribes persist because style is social, and the personal style concept is mostly fake. We are generally choosing what to wear from what's already available in the marketplace, or choosing based on how we perceive that marketplace (which we might not be able to really participate in bc we are broke). And the marketplace is the domain of product marketing, where certain items are hammered into the front of our vision and we are tricked into desiring them. 

If I can interrogate my own taste in clothes for a microsecond, I think it somewhat involves dressing in drag as "normal man" in order to protect against some kind of gender anxiety. Also sort of leaning into my big and hairy body, in a way that works with what I already look like. Additionally I admit I dress a lot like my mom, a primary influence on my life, who basically has two clothes modes: Polo down, and wizard in flowing robes. Both of which appeal to me immensely. 

Anyway that's what's going on in Finals land fashion wise this season. It's on my mind because as I type this it's not just the beginning of the season when I really start dressing (or at least I think I do), it's also the beginning of fashion week, a time of year I have a seriously mixed relationship with as a fan and a critic. I'm very ambivalent about it. I over think it. Sometimes I write about it. This year I'm not.  

ANYWAY. Music. 

Fall wise, this is what I'm on. I edit this playlist weekly: 

<iframe style="border-radius:12px" src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/playlist/5y59z0bz2oMeNWIlgowEPO?utm_source=generator" width="100%" height="352" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" loading="lazy"></iframe>

Fall is also a fine time to listen to guitar music, which I have been keeping a close-ish eye on this year: 

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Additionally if you need more music to listen to, I have been building this since January (it includes some late December jams): 

<iframe style="border-radius:12px" src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/playlist/6aklv9jdF97fBO07cnWOlG?utm_source=generator" width="100%" height="352" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" loading="lazy"></iframe>

And this:

<iframe style="border-radius:12px" src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/playlist/2PkJPpusbyP7dThL7ZNS16?utm_source=generator" width="100%" height="352" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" loading="lazy"></iframe> 

And that's it. Sound off the in the comments, like & subscribe, peace & fucking.


Fall Fit Check & Playlists

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Now is the perfect time to get hip to kimdollars1, a club-adjacent producer you may have already encountered through her collabs with [Finals fav Tomu DJ](https://www.finals.blog/posts/HALF-MOON-BAE:-A-CONVERSATION-WITH-TOMU-DJ), her own [electronic, ambient, and hip-hop inspired recordings](https://kimdollars1.bandcamp.com/), or her [live band improv jams](https://ganitz.bandcamp.com/). 

Her new, short solo project 3733775 (out today) is an 'allow me to reintroduce myself' moment, where Kim is actively trying to connect with more listeners. On the phone from her new home in Austin, Texas, the former Manhattanite says she's been "focused on conventional electronic music structure lately, trying to make my music more accessible." 

3733775 is, as I like to think of it, one for the DJs. Made from sturdy Ableton beats and emotive KORG Triton piano lines, it holds up on repeat listens, too, with a unique sound that is at once housey, jazzy, and IDMish. Kim told me she was inspired by the broad umbrellas of house music and rap music, and specifically the moody wistfulness of mixtape era French Montana and Queens drill rapper Big Yaya. 

Finals loves a first, and this is Kim's first interview of her whole damn life. It has been edited for content and clarity. 

–  

**We met at [Young World 3](https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/mike-young-world-festival-noname-mavi/), where we were both pretty hyped to see Jay Critch. What did you think of his set?**

I thought it was super cool. One of my main goals was to see if I was taller than him, I always heard that he was really tall. From where I was standing though I could see the top of his head, so I think I’m taller. I think it would have been cool to hear some other throwbacks, although he did play “Smutty,” and “Did It Again,” but it was really cool to see. It was a cool hometown hero moment. Whenever I’m in New York I hear people listening to his music in the street.

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**I loved it, but I must admit I was bummed that he was going over his recorded vocals.** 

Totally. 

**But it was just cool to see him, I’m such a fan.** 

It was inspiring, and such a full circle moment. He’s someone where…OK the Rich Forever thing was such an era, but it’s interesting to think about what other spaces he would have been in if that never happened. That was a time when there was a big underground rap scene in New York. I think Rich Forever set him apart and made him less immersed in what was going on. So seeing him at Young World get to be a part of that was really cool. You know his producer Laron was DJing for him that day, and he’s made music with MIKE, so it made sense in that way. He always seemed like he was caught between worlds. If Jay Critch had never been signed to Rich Forever, would there be these really cool Jay Critch and MIKE records? 

**I like that speculation. So are you not a New Yorker anymore? Where am I reaching you?**

I am, but I moved to Texas last summer. My partner is a farmer and they got a job down here last spring, and I was working in education at the time, so I moved to Texas last summer. It’s been chill, I would say. I’m in Austin, and it’s cool. Right now it’s been hot, and summer vibes in Texas are that everyone does what they need to do and then goes swimming afterwards. Austin is super lush, ton of green space, and that’s cool. I have friends here from NY, some people I know through music, and I work as a waitress in downtown Austin which is very different socially from working as an educator but very fun, for sure. Kind of a mixed bag. Past few months I’ve been feeling more so certainty, confirmation that the move was a good decision. People here are really nice. It’s a big change of pace from New York but I was looking for that, and it’s really cool to be here, on a different tip.  

**I’m glad it’s clicking.** 

I love being in NY when I visit. But having some time, and reflecting more on what’s really inspiring to me, and what my influences are, this is helping me see it in a clearer way. Versus being inundated by the trendy stuff in NY. 

**It sounds like you put it on the line for love.** 

I try to put it on the line for love everyday. 

**I want to talk about 3733775, your EP. Where do the numbers come from?**

Yeah! The numbers are significant to me, past addresses and phone numbers. My projects, I view as being emblematic of different periods of my life. This was my way of grounding the project in a new place, in the past nine months or year or so. A second chance, sort of. It was a way for me to describe the project and where I am right now and how it connects to other points in my life. The numbers are impersonal but very characteristic of how meaning often works in life, in music, or writing, or physical space, something might have a lot of context but if someone else doesn’t have that context it might not be decipherable. But they’ll make it meaningful to themselves. Not immediately identifiable, but you’ll develop your own personal associations. 

**You’ve got a bunch of projects, do you feel like it stands out?**

I feel like it does. In NY, that was me responding to influences and figuring out my sound. With this project my two goals were to make something that was more sonically cohesive, and approach it in a professional way. I’m trying to put it on streaming and stuff. I was trying to hone in on where I see my sound coming from, and how to present that using a downtempo, housey sound. I think it stands out as more cohesive and I’m just confident about it. 

**I hear it rooted in house, and I hear jazz and IDM melodically and in terms of arrangement. Are those influences?**

I am not a jazz pianist, I’m an amateur piano player but I love jazz piano. My primary influences would be jazz pianists like Patrice Rushen, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, his improv videos…I had a friend growing up whose mom was a piano teacher, and his mom was Taiwanese and my mom is Korean so they were friends on like a “Asian mom” tip, and she would come through and teach me piano lessons once a week. So I learned scales, stuff like that, but never super rigorous. I admire classically trained musicians but I have enough proficiency in baseline music theory. My dad played guitar, so I got some experience with stringed instruments. The whole jazz improv paradigm is something I’m inspired by but dont have those skills. Although I am always trying to get better. IDM, I’m not super familiar with outside classic stuff like Aphex Twin, Warp stuff, but jazz has been a huge influence on me. 

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**Maybe you’re not jazz, but jazzy?**

Totally. 

**What about the role of improv on the project. Are any of the melodies improvised?**

My process is that I do play out all the melodies, they aren’t just written in the DAW. The project was almost 100% composed in Ableton. But there are some piano lines off the keyboard. I build tracks in Ableton, and I have a KORG Triton, an 88-key, fully weighted keyboard. I might sit at my piano and see what comes to me, play for a half hour, and hour, longer. For the most part I just go into Ableton and see what comes out. 

**I hear those melody, keyboard lines like Future’s DS2 album cover. Ink being dropped into water.** 

Word?

**I imagine the melody unfurling, noodling around while the drum programming remains more sturdy.** 

That is the way that I record to a certain extent. And I’ll keep imperfections if it works in the context of the sound. 

**Your music goes between genres fluidly, incorporates a lot. Do you feel like you need a genre? Or a brand?**

I don’t think I feel much external pressure to do so. Reflecting on where the sound comes from, I’ve come to a better understanding of what I’m trying to express through my music. My music has a lot of different genres, but my music is interested in melody, texture, rhythms that come from house music and hip-hop. I view house music as an umbrella term. Shorthand that implies a lot of other influences. Sonically I’m feeling more singular recently. 

**What do you think about your future with non electronic music? Still interested in jamming?**

Yeah after this project I want to revisit ambient. I’ve been thinking about a mixtape series. I’ve been having more regular practice with being at the piano. In NY, I picked up the guitar and had a lot of fun, and have been thinking about buying one. I like live instrumentation. I’m always trying to be a better piano player, and having opportunities to do so with friends is cool. I’ve been more focused on conventional electronic music structure lately, trying to make my music more accessible. But now I’m gonna zoom out again, and let myself go down that path. 

**What did you mean when you said you wanted the project to be “professional”?**

I wanted to release an electronic project with a more conventional structure versus freeform, so I wanted to present it in a professional way. I want to get it out through official streaming, but I also want to release things casually. My main goal with music is just to keep working on it and make things that I’m proud of. The professionalism thing is finding things for others to relate to, and about accessibility more than anything else. 

**Did something about your upbringing contribute to this attitude about music, where you’re not really trying to make money off it?**

I think so. I grew up on the Upper West Side, and on the one hand, it was very inspiring, exposed me to cool music and cultural stuff. As did the internet. At the same time, there was also this music scene and kids making music when I was in high school who were classically trained, Jazz at Lincoln Center for Youth, and I’ve always been interested and passionate but that was more like outside my life. I never viewed myself as a capital M musician, like the people who go to LaGuardia High School. And seeing all the weird NY scene stuff, put me off pursuing music as a career. I’ve been trying to grapple with that, maybe insecurity that I have, maybe impostor syndrome. And seeing how it informs my music, and also not get too attached to it. I’ve tried to keep music as something I’m passionate about, and not my livelihood. But at the same time, I’m recognizing that I have the power to present my music in a way that people can easily get into. Growing up in NY, I’ve seen so many paths I don’t want to go down. 

**Like what?**

Doing the whole, and no shade, but the whole Brooklyn DJ thing. I mean I’ve been trying to learn to DJ lately, trying to expand my craft. But the whole scene stuff. I’ve always been wary of that. I was never going to try to participate, I had my own life, and own friends, and was doing me. I was never upset about it, but I never identified with it. People can feel very opportunistic in NY, but so does so much in NY, so I don’t think it’s a music problem specifically. Hence why having some space has been good. 

**I’m not anti- the hipster axis of music in Bushwick, but I also have my stuff already, my people, my family, and I’m not trying to be a factor in a scene.** 

Exactly.

**I’m curious to hear about your high school listening life. And early, formative, living in NY musical experiences.** 

When I was forming my identity around music, in middle school, I was getting into the new indie stuff, DFA stuff, LCD Soundsystem was a big influence for me. This Is Happening came out when I was going into 8th grade. Growing up my dad listened to De La Soul and Beastie Boys and put me onto that. In high school, I was still into indie rock, but also rap, Chief Keef, Dipset, Cam is my favorite rapper. There was a whole like, Mishka scene, Das Racist, that world was inspiring to me. Le1f was really inspiring to me, they grew up in Hell’s Kitchen. They have a lyric on their album Dark York “I’m from West Manhattan / where it’s always happenin.” Looking back it’s like, Oh, that was a Wesleyan/Oberlin postcollegiate music scene. It’s identifiable. But that music scene, for the first few years of high school, was something I was into for sure. Later into high school I was super into Young Thug, Future, Migos, Peewee Longway, Gucci Mane. I thought Young Thug was the most innovative rapper ever. And was also getting into like Prince, Chaka Khan, so it was diverse. But I was really into rap. New York and Atlanta. There was certain NY stuff I never got into, because it was too serious, like real hip-hop. I was like, that’s cool, but I’m listening to Future. And those real hip-hop people would be like, Future is trash. They were trying to get me into like, Nas, and Immortal Technique. Serious rap. My taste was never super aligned with that. I’m not even being a hater, some of that stuff is cool, too. But the Real. Capital R. That was never really my thing. People would be like, We can’t even understand what Young Thug is saying. I would be like, Well, it speaks to me. But I always say Cam is my favorite rapper because his thing is about being really flamboyant, and kind of being a bitch, and just being from Manhattan. That ostentatiousness stood out to me. 

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**And when did you start making music?**

I started making music when I started realizing I was trans. I had a friend with an Ableton crack, and that was really cool to me. I thought if I could learn how to use Ableton, that would make the whole trans thing more discernible or decipherable to people somehow. I came out as trans five years ago, and I’m 25 now. 

**Do you think in some sense you’ve been trying to convey who you are through your music?**

I think so. When I was first coming out, and how that can be vulnerable and scary part of anyone’s life, I thought it would make sense that, Oh, you also make music, so it makes sense that you’re, like, eccentric. I think because of that I always viewed music as a way to figure out my relationship to influences, and communicate elements of my own life. 

**So in a way when we’re listening to your music, we’re hearing you do a little introspection.** 

Definitely. And even though it’s my music, I don’t think it sounds a lot like Juelz Santana or anything. But I’ve been seeing press about hip-house lately, and I think that’s really cool, and I think I view house music and rap and electronic music as more coextensive or mirror images of each other. I used to make beats, moreso. And I’m not a vocalist. But I’ve been trying to let in more of the rap music I was listening to growing up, if not the sonics, then the mood. I’m a huge French Montana fan, so maybe the emotional tenor of that stuff I want to come through. And even the Dipset stuff, it’s very classic New York get money get fly stuff, but also the pain and cruelty of New York City and just trying to make it in this world. I similarly try to have an element in my music that’s celebratory and also reflective, or true to what we endured along the way. 

**If I have to take some of the mood from French Montana, then I can see there’s something from like “Sanctuary” in your music.** 

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Totally. 

**Drunken wistfulness.** 

Exactly wistfulness is the word for it. The New York rap I listen to now, I feel like is more so the stuff that has that wistful mood. You ever listen to Big Yaya?

**He’s from Queens right, with Shawny Binladen?**

Yeah, he’s probably my favorite rapper out of New York, really carrying that mood, where it’s really celebratory but also very painful. Definitely when I was living in New York that stuff really spoke to me. That got me through my last few years in New York, listening to mixtape French and Big Yaya and like, also Chaka Khan. 

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**I know you don’t want to be a hipster DJ, but if you could put together a set that involves all that music, I want to be at that club.** 

Totally, I am trying right now. I’m trying to put together a more serious DJ set, and I’m putting together a trip to New York in fall. Recently I’ve been getting back into Ron Browz, Dame Grease production style. I think house and rap, they come from similar places, maybe not socially in terms of positionality, but in terms of what they want to express, and using all the same technology. All the samples coming from old soul and disco. Same goals, but different stuff. "Pop Champagne," the toms on that are really inspiring to me. I see that as related to house music, in New York, in different ways. 

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The kimdollars1 Interview

![New Project (52).png](https://finals.blog/api/uploads/New_Project_52_0a991e7d63.png)

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L.A. rapper and producer ZAYALLCAPS’ BALLING OUT OF SPITE is one of my albums of the year, a compact set of delicate/triumphant jams built on Graduation-esque synth textures, and deeply felt rapping and singing. It is a student becoming the master type album, the sound of a major Kanye and Pi’erre Bourne fan finding his voice and doing his own thing. 

Talking to him, I learned that BALLING OUT OF SPITE marked the start of a new era for ZAY, artistically and mentally. In 2019-2020 he experienced psychosis, three hospitalizations, and eventually went home to Sacramento for emotional dysregulation treatment. In 2021 he made the album, trying to re-enter life in L.A. Now I can hear the pressure of the period stamped into the songs. And it makes me respect the album all the more. 

The following has been edited for content and clarity. 

--

**So you’ve been in the game 13 years and you’re from Sacramento.** 

Yes sir, a little 13 years and a little outside Sacramento. Lived in Natomas, South Sac, Davis. And I lived in Arizona for three years. How’s it going man?

**Good I was just jamming your shit.** 

What’s sticking for you?

**All of it, including the interludes. But I think ALL LUV and PRO CLUBZ are the hits.** 

Thank you, that’s so fire. MINE is my favorite but I think ALL LUV is the one people are gonna like the most. 

**I like WANNABE a lot.** 

Thank you. 

**Let’s talk about it. How would you describe the textures of this album, productionwise?**

Here’s what it is. I made Kwamzay, which was me getting my skills up with my sample skills, and then this was me trying to do my weird synth shit. It kinda feels like Zapp & Roger, kinda feels like Pi’erre Bourne, like Graduation, warm but digital. It doesn’t feel cold. Pi’erre 5 came out that summer. I was bumping that and DISCO by MIKE all the time. 

**Are you a keyboard player?**

I know theory, and I know enough to make good beats, but I need discipline and to practice more. I want to be able to get a chord sheet and easily practice with a band. I’ll learn piano shit to make better beats, then get distracted. 

**How are you able to do such good hooks? Is it because you can sing?**

Whoa, that’s sick. I’m gonna accept that compliment. I felt like hooks were one of my weaknesses, so I try not to think of it as a hook. I’m already rapping, here’s a part in the verse that’s just gonna be a hook. I tried to make it feel as natural as possible. 

**What about singing? What’s your history with singing?**

I was 16-17 and snapchatting my homegirl in high school, and I was being funny and sang a Chris Brown thing real quick, and she was like, Why can you kinda sing? And that gassed me up to try it. I made a few songs that were good ideas, but bad. I had a car in high school and practiced all the time in my car. I generally won’t show anyone a thing until I’m good at it, lowkey. I’m getting out of that now. I get the beauty of the process. But singing’s a vulnerable thing. I want to take singing lessons. 

**I love the singing on WANNABE.** 

That’s the second take of WANNABE, the first take wasn’t as breathy. I did a more breathy take. 

**Nice, breathy take.** 

Had to get that Britney Spears. 

**Also you say, “I aspire to Be like Common but I’m not trying to be like Common.” Love that.**

That’s my dude Brandon, aka Kwame Adu, my best friend and bandmate in Kwamzay, he has an unreleased song and he said “I wanna Be like Common but I’m not trying to be like Common” and I was like Bro, I’m just gonna take that. It's a silly punchline, like how Common just wants to Be, like the album Be. 

**Does this album represent a certain time in your life?**

Super. 100%. The emotions, the way I’m processing it, it’s all different now. But it’s a step forward. My prior EP was called I’m Slowly Getting Better, and there was a somewhat optimistic tone. And this one is like I’m more locked in, OK I’m just gonna go and do it, make this happen. But I don’t know how but I’ma do it. Anyway, things are different now. Like on PRO CLUBZ I’m talking about FL Studio, but I use Ableton now. And on the album I talk about grabba, but I don’t smoke anything anymore. 

**What will success with this album look like?**

Well I did it, I finally made an album. And I wanted to do that since I was 16. Had a lot of great friends around me to make it happen. As far as releasing it, I think having a larger resume of what I do, hopefully get an opening slot on somebody’s tour. Even if it’s a leg of a California tour, a few shows. I want to separate myself from everyone, and that I care a lot, I care so much about every little detail. And people knowing that I’m legit. 

**"I would just love to get high, but I gotta keep that money in mind." On MULTIPLY. Love how honest that is.** 

I was in the midst of my biggest stoner phase, and it was getting weird. And I was wasting money, and not going outside, and staying inside smoking weed to get my money’s worth. 

**And then compare that with SPREE, where you’re swiping your credit card and getting likes on the Gram.** 

That was about having a manic episode. Where everything is euphoria. It’s a spree, but in a fucked up way. I don’t care, I don’t have any concept of impulse control. 

**A lot of the album sounds up, but the thematics are down. It’s a cool juxtaposition.** 

I’m glad it’s apparent. My favorite way to put it is I enjoy art that depicts life. Heavy, dark themes, in an otherwise chill piece of art. That’s more realistic and more fun to make. My favorite TV shows are King of the Hill and Curb Your Enthusiasm, where it’s life as life. 

**ALL LUV really went off live when I saw you last month at the Virgil, next to PRO CLUBZ it was your hardest jam. I love the chop on that beat on ALL LUV. And another great chorus. Such a yearning song. Could you talk about that song a little bit? And that’s totally self produced right?**

ALL LUV is my ode to Pi’erre. Plus a sample in there. I heard “Late Night” by 454 and was like, Oh that’s a Brent Faiyaz sample, so I was like Bet, I’m gonna sample Bryson Tiller. And turn it up. On the lyric tip I wanted to say some real shit. Have a real song. The first lyric on the verse, “This year a n—a done changed up / that shit switched my brain up.” I’m not talking about a relationship, I’m talking about having a psychotic breakdown and was in the psych ward.

**You do talk about mental health a lot. How’s your mental health these days?**

It’s pretty good, and music plays a huge part. I don’t have to run from it. It’s a part of me, just something I have.  

**And ALL LUV  goes into MINE, which is so lovey. Another great beat. Very sung, vocally. This is R&B.**  

That’s me on my PARTYNEXTDOOR shit. It’s a pre-breakup song, which is sadder than a breakup song. 

**It’s an inkling.** 

Yeah. I’m pleading with myself damn near. When I wrote it, I really believed it, and thought I could save the relationship. I couldn’t, but it’s fine.

**And then of course there’s PRO CLUBZ which is a song about a shirt that isn’t really about a shirt. It’s about how your friends hate on you and it hurts.** 

Deadass. I ran out of concepts and was like, I’m gonna diary-entry this one. That period, I fell out with a few people. There ended up being a few more after that. It was a weird period. I had just come back from staying with my parents, experiencing psychosis, and moved back to LA and expected to have my same friend group and everything cool. But I was like alone all the time, and I’m getting older, shit is getting weird, people crossed some boundaries, and I felt bad about “letting” that happen, and I was so, so, so, so, sad making this album. 

**It’s like you used the music to will yourself out of it.** 

Yeah. Balling out of spite. 

**So that means, like balling out of spite for how much time you spent feeling bad?**

Yes. It’s about fuck yall, Im flexing, but also yeah, pissed that Im’ a shell of myself. I was like, we’re gonna do this. 

**Any advice you have for people who are going to the hospital and feeling like they’re losing their mind?**

Be patient with yourself, and count all the smallest victories. If you get enough of those, you’ll get some momentum going, and you won’t even notice you’re way better until you’re way better. 

**What else do you want to say about the project?**

Every song on the album has a triple flow and 808s, it’s a rap-ass album even though it’s not. 

**It’s a rap album. Just very melodic.** 

Another fun tidbit: I’m making this, not even thinking I want to put myself out there, and the plan was to mix the vocals low, almost inaudible. I was inspired by MIKE and 454. Older MIKE you can’t really hear what he’s saying. 454, on some of the older shit I don’t know what he’s saying either. But Kwame and my pops were like, we need to hear that shit clearer, you’re barring out. Super important to note, my dad is partially deaf. So on a functional level he needed the vocals turned up. And anyway I took ownership of the importance of the stuff I was saying, and decided to be more present on the album. 

**Your parents are supportive?**

Hugely. My dad used to rap when I was younger, him and my mom were both huge hip-hop heads. They’re both from L.A. but never had a “fuck the East Coast” thing. My dad always knew about production even though he didn’t produce. I thought that was cool. Going to buy records off Craigslist with my dad when I was 12. My mom’s born on Tupac’s birthday, loves Pac, Murs, Hieroglyphics…
 
**On a closing note, I notice that you are loved by blogs. How do you feel about that?**

It’s all I ever wanted, to be a blog darling. This blog post is my Grammy. This is it! 




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Fall Fit Check & Playlists

The kimdollars1 Interview

The ZAYALLCAPS Interview