Photos by @mynameisjuwan

Shout out Finals family Kim aka DJ kimila aka producer kimdollars1 for this definitive interview with Brooklyn producer Laron, on the occasion of his new collab album with Jay Critch, Plus Ultra. The album is amazing, imhhho cements Critch as a NY rap hall of famer, and is a level-up for Laron, who was already on another level -- and the cool thing is it seems like they're just getting started, ten years in. I initially met Kim at a Critch show, so this is full circle.

Relatedly: Find Kim and Laron spinning at Finals' intermittent event series LET THE MUSIC PLAY 3/23 in Crown Heights, alongside myself and Jaiyn. It's at a tiny room attached to a record store attached to a bar. Come through if you're in NY!

-Andrew

If you’ve ever watched the video for Did it Again, Jay Critch’s 2016 breakout hit, you’ve seen Laron, jubilant and donned in a Polo cap. The two are coming around on a decade working together, now releasing their first full-length collaborative project. Plus Ultra, “further beyond” in Latin, holds to the promise of its name. Three years into his deal with independent label Empire, Critch has had the time and space to mature as an artist with a strong showing of mixtapes and albums in the aftermath of his split from Rich Forever. Here, he flexes his usual strong suits: rapping about the “jattic” he’s smoking, the clothes he’s wearing/not wearing, everything of course centrally revolving around “talking money,” thematized in fashions both industrious (“Oh you talkin’ cash shit? OK, now I’m interested” goes the hook of stand-out “Well Known”) and absurd (“My brodie on Ozempic how he get those pounds off”). But, working off his chemistry with Laron, he commits to his ideas as springboards into new vocal and songwriting territory, playing with harmony, imagery, and his flows.

The two really hit their stride with tracks like “Miles On It” and “Twisted,” the latter of which almost veers into R&B territory. While Critch typically dons the title “Top Smut” in making his sexual exploits known throughout his work, his more romantic moments have always been my favorite. This line runs through his collaborations with Laron, whether on “Brown Hair,” a highlight from Critch’s debut Hood Favorite, or last year’s “Regular Type.” On “Don Julio,” Critch plays with the ambitious attitude in his music, where even the women are aspirational hustlers of their own making (“2AM, I sent a late text/And shorty make dollars but that ass don’t make sense”). The hook produces an ironic vulnerability, though, where as Critch is “tryna see how she look when she naked,” he reveals he thinks his girl is the baddest as he looks around the club, and dreams about her being “dangerous,” progressively putting his interiority on display over the course of the song.

We get two features in the second half of the project. Mally Bandz, another OG collaborator from Critch’s Talk Money crew, pops up for the spacious, head-spinning “Darkness.” The strength of the album, however, is most indicated by the reconciliatory “Reload It” with Rich the Kid, which feels more like a victory lap than a triumph of its own. The song is solid, but its straightforward execution only highlights the adventurousness of the rest of the project.

We were so lucky to have been able to discuss the project with Laron. He provides the album’s varied, yet lush and hard-hitting sound, imbued with his distinctive sense of texture and melody. The extended format lets him set the pace and shine as an arranger as well. The following is our conversation with the storied producer, edited for clarity and length.

You and Critch have been working together for almost a decade now. What made you decide it was finally time to release a full-length collaborative project?

We’ve been talking about the idea for a little while, probably the last 4 or 5 years, throwing the idea out there and going back and forth about it. But we were always working throughout the whole time, different projects and shit he’s always working on, and just like us being brothers, always chilling. I would always have input on shit he’s already working on, so I guess it just came down to looking around and being like, “Aight cool, we can do this.” Like, we have enough work. We really just started thinking about how that would look and it didn’t really change much of how much we work. It made it more intentional, like, cool, we’re working on a project now. We’re not just cooking up, or cooking up for an album in the sense of like one of his ideas.

What was the process like for the tracks? Were they accumulated over time or did they come together more recently?

Well, that was the thing too. Since we have a longer working relationship, it’s like, we can tell that we’re getting better or more efficient in our work chemistry. I feel extremely confident now compared to when we first started, so there’s that. Then, I would say we had a bunch of shit from a few years ago that kind of went, like, by the wayside. We have shit that fans know about that’s unreleased. We have new shit that we wanna showcase and tryna blend that all together, tryna keep the fans in mind. There’s certain shit that you kind of move past, especially when it’s 2025. Thinking about tracks from 2019, 2018, doesn’t really feel like it’s that far, but it is, it’s like 6, 7… There’s some time in between. There’s certain shit you don’t really want to waste, even those past times. I guess that’s the best way I could explain it – it’s a mix of all our new shit, but also joints from the past that we definitely want to make sure are out there.

I get that. You don’t want to put out something that feels tired or old to you but at the same time you want to honor the fact that people are going to be seeing it for the first time or hearing it for the first time as well.

Yeah exactly, and there’s a dilemma with certain artists that come out of a certain time period, especially 2016, 2017. Fans hold you to that introductory period when they first got introduced to you. And for somebody like Critch, he’s still able to tap into that, but it’s also sort of like a push and a pull. You know fans want shit, like they want you to go back to that vibe and sometimes it’s like, “Yo, we’ve evolved so much.” So it’s like, trying to make sure that there’s an equal blend of that. You’re not giving them just brand new shit that they aren’t necessarily open to, but also yeah, tryna make sure that it’s both.

Are there any tracks that were initially envisioned for the project that ended up coming out over the years?

I would say we made a bunch of new shit that’s on the project and then there’s a bunch of shit we went through the archives for that I want to say was going to come out on a Critch album. We’re constantly working on shit. Bro is always in the studio too. He has a crazy work ethic. So it’s tryna balance all of that like, damn, we can keep going, you know what I mean? Even with this project, really hitting a bunch of shit, putting mad new tracks out, it’s like, alright, we gotta start to figure out track listing, vibes.

But I would say since the summer we’ve had this track called “Do The Race” and that was the first track we would look at each other like, “This sounds like project vibes.” Like, this has the energy and kind of made us excited.

Where does the name of the project, Plus Ultra, come from? I know it’s a moniker you’ve used throughout your work for some time now.

Yeah, Plus Ultra is something that I wouldn’t even say is personal to me, but it is something I have been using over the years and something I treat like a label. Me and Critch were having a conversation and he just loved that idea, the idea of the name and the concept and shit. I was super open to it as well because with Plus Ultra, it’s one of those things where I wanted it to be my like label or some shit like that, but it’s also something that I think encompasses what me and Critch have going on. It kind of helped shape the imagery for some of the concepts we have for the project.

I definitely wanted to make sure this was different from any other Critch project he’s dropped before, so we went crazy with the conceptual parts of it. Like, how do we want this album artwork to look or like, the type of vibe we want to give. Usually, a lot of times, this shit is straightforward, so I’m like, “We should just build a world instead.” Plus Ultra kind of helped build that out a little bit, so we could be characters in a sense, or do different things. Also, I wanted to make this project fun, not even just fun, but energetic. I felt like Plus Ultra went with that as well.

What does your recording process with Critch usually look like? Do you two have any particular routines? Do you record on the road much or is it mostly in BK?

We’ve been working for like 10 years. Before we were on, we were just making music and shit. There’s a freestyle, like early freestyle from Critch, it’s like Had To Freestyle. He brought us out to Boston one time to his brother’s crib, Coach Matt. That was like the first time I got to leave the city on some regular shit with the homies. We were just there with his older brother and his older brother’s super cool, so we were chillin in the crib. He had the recording set up and that kind of started our like real deal working relationship.

We were just chilling together. I was really getting into the beats heavy and we started really tracking out the sound from all the way then. By the time we get to like, Did It Again, it became sort of, like, a normal thing for us to just chill, hang out, but also put mad time in the studio. I’m always making beats. That’s how a lot of people met me. So it’s just kind of a combination of those things, just chillin, vibin, but also watching bro get better with his shit. He always has a way of approaching shit, so it’s like, tryna supply the thing that I think would be dope in the midst of that, and having the ability to watch somebody’s career on the outside too.

It’s not like I’m producing every single thing, so you can kind of see what people present or what he goes to naturally as an artist on his own, and kind of develop like a do’s, don'ts, we should go this way, we should go that way. I try to take it super seriously with a lot of thought, but this is natural too. This is not something that stresses me out, ever. Like, this is my friend. I kind of see what my friend needs. I have the ability to craft that. The past two years especially has been like, leaning into that heavy, completely, with way more confidence than ever. It’s like, “Alright, we could really do this.” I could give bro the sound he needs, and vice versa.

I figure you must have a pretty extensive backlog of beats. How often are you coming to a session with beats versus cooking something up on the spot?

This goes up and down. When I was first starting out, definitely in high school, I didn’t even have my own laptop. I was using my friends’ laptops. I was using anybody’s laptop I could get my hands on. My homie would lend me his laptop for like two weeks and I would just flood it with mad beats and then eventually, they’d want it back. It happened like that all the way until I got to college, when I went to BMCC. That first year, me and Critch went to BMCC. We only went there for like 2, 3 months because after that, he got signed and then we went straight to LA.

By the time I got my laptop, that’s when I really started honing in on a lot of the shit I was already doing. When Critch started was when I really started to like save all of these different things. Everything was just out there. I was making beats on like Virtual DJ back in the day. I didn’t really have any like organization. Working with Tony (Seltzer), working with producers over time, meeting people, I was kind of like, always leading with the music, so it wasn’t really hard to collaborate and do different things like that. I would say now that I cook up a lot at home. I cook up in a comfortable setting. A lot of the time, I want to be as comfortable as possible. I have ideas that pop up at any point. I try to stockpile the ideas throughout the week. I save basically everything that I make.

When it comes to sessions, recently I’ve been doing it way more consistently. I’ve been locking in, like, three days a week, almost. Prior to that, I wasn’t really in the studio as much. So whenever I had the session or someone invited me, I would just always have a bunch of stuff because I was prepared. But saving everything would help me because nothing would be bad at that point, if you know what I mean. Even beats that I would be like, “This is kind of regular,” I would make a habit of just saving everything and going through it all with the artist or different people.

You released the excellent Last of a Dying Geek with Mally Bandz last year. Like with Critch, you and Mally have worked together extensively, but this project was the first fully collaborative venture between you two. Can you compare the process behind these two releases?

I would say it’s the same a little bit, but Mally is different because Mally is an inspiration to us all. Like, Mally is super naturally nice, gifted in that way. I remember in high school, we had the T Pain auto-tune app. We would just fuck around and shit, but it was kind of like one of those things where you hear your friend do something and you’re like. “Oh shit, you’re really good.” And this is, like, a T Pain app, so it’s already bogus. But we could hear it. And I was already into music heavy, so I heard this shit immediately. He would make these really funny songs, but he had lines. This was when we were in high school and shit, so I remember that influenced us all. Like me and Critch being like, “Mally is really nice.” All the way back then until now, me and bro are super cool, super close. That’s one of those things where that’s my friend and he has that ability. I be tryna tell him he has to exploit that more.

With the tape it was like we have a million tracks, you know what I mean? And these aren’t just random one offs, like Mally has it. I don’t even know what it is and I be telling him all the time, “We gotta really double down on that shit.” But at the same time, every artist is different, every artist I work with is different. I just try to make sure I'm available and ready to go. But Mally is a little more personal for me because I was there, literally 9th grade. It’s a blessing to be able to say we put together something. These are my friends for real, so I’m tryna present what could be their best work or what could be a great example of one.

How did you first get into making beats?

I’ve been making beats since I was a kid. There’s a video on YouTube, my homie Elz sends me this shit all the time. I was like 6, I had braids and shit, you know, I was chillin with my little set up. But it’s kinda been like that ever since, that’s why I bring it up. I wasn’t doing it professionally, obviously, but it was just a hobby.

My family has musical ties. My pops owned like a street label back in the day, and he had a stable of artists. I was always in the music world in a sense. I always had people around me making music, rappers, singers, and often producers. Then when I got to middle school, I started meeting more people and had little middle school rap crews, adolescent rap artistry, shit like that. I have an earlier career with this one artist named Stro. His formal name was The Astronomical Kid. He had a whole thing on X Factor and shit like that, but he lived in my neighborhood. I wanted to rap at first. I already had like the whole shit going, but I met him and he was super nice. He was like reading the dictionary and I had just got into making beats. So that’s what made me wanna just make beats, and it’s been like that ever since.

What were you using when you initially started making beats?

My dad had a Mac desktop. This was like the fat one, but it wasn’t the white joint. It was when they just switched to like the fat silver ones, it was the desktop joint. I used to use GarageBand and shit for mad years and then I switched to Logic eventually down the line. I was using Reason too. Reason was dope. I switched to Ableton in high school. My homie from Atlanta, shout out Word Nerd, that’s my guy still, he showed me how to use Ableton. It was the first time I ever seen it and I kinda just stuck with that ever since.

What kept you with Ableton over the years?

When my homie showed me it at the time in high school, he was doing shit I was trying to do. I was trying to sample more. I felt like I was limited by Logic. There was, like, a certain style and way of going about it. At the same time, I didn’t learn how to mix until years after. My homie Grim Genesis, at the time he was making beats on Virtual DJ by lining up two tracks and shit like that. This was when I got to high school, so it became super loose, like making loops, sampling, kind of mixing it, going back and forth, doing this whole DJ kind of style. It was super complicated. It was a certain sound, the Freemind shit at the time. But Ableton has persisted over time, that’s my number one shit.

How did you get involved with TME originally?

In middle school, I had already knew Critch technically. There was this group, Kings of the Tribe, shout out Fisher, he still makes music. It was a group, like four of us, five of us, but Critch was a part of that group. I somehow got to be a part of it because I used to go to school in Park Slope, New Voices, it’s like 18th Street. I used to walk all the way down 5th avenue and chill all over Park Slope. I used to meet kids and that was my introductory thing, like, “Yo, I make beats.” I was kind of serious when I was in middle school, I can’t lie. Then in high school, I went to school downtown. But I started meeting people from Critch’s neighborhood at my school and it became this small world thing. I ended up meeting Mally, who I went to high school with, and he went to middle school with Critch. Just a bunch of local shit. At the time, I didn’t live downtown or anything, but because of the music and shit like that we ended up chilling heavy. Now I’ve known bro since like 9th grade, basically.

Do you mind if I ask for the name of your dad’s label?

My pops had an independent label called Familiar Faces. There’s possibly stuff out there. I’ve never really searched it, so if people find it, they find it. I remember my god-brother, his name is Negus, he was rappin and shit. They used to have DVDs and shit like that. But one of the major stars to come out of that label would be Lil Mama, she’s my cousin. She was the one that made it throughout all of that. That was a whole thing in my early youth, just being around her and that sort of industry side of the world.

One of the first big tracks you and Critch had together was Man Down. This was featuring Rowdy Rebel back in 2015 when GS9 was huge. How did that track come about?

Basically around that time, GS9 was blowing up. Before they blew up though, I met Rowdy because we live in the same neighborhood. I knew his dad, his dad knew my dad and shit. I was still wet behind the ears. We weren’t nobody, but I had a verse from him. I didn’t really know what to do with it and bro wasn’t really stressing about it at the time. Then somehow, Critch, I can’t really remember the inception of them linking together. I think I got Critch on that track. We were like, “Yo, Critch should do this shit, boom.” Then they met and connected, either after or somewhere during the process. Critch wasn’t on at the time when GS9 was on. I think they were like right before and after each other. So yeah, that’s kinda how that happened, but I technically had a plug to Rowdy Rebel at the time

Did you have any hand in scoring the Fivio Foreign feature on Out the Dirt? I know he’s also from the neighborhood.

Word, yeah, I definitely did that track, and I met Fivio too before he blew. Super random. I can’t even say the whole story, but I will say that he is definitely, like, not poppin, then the next day, poppin, gone. That song though, I had just made that beat. It was super straightforward. I think Critch already had the track ready and shit. I don’t really know Fivio like that, but I know people who know him and shit so that was how I met him prior to him blowing up.

Another early career highlight for your production was “$$$” with XXXTentacion and Matt Ox. How did you end up working on that?

I was on Instagram one day and I had already worked with Critch heavy around that time. I’m not sure which track exactly might have caught Matt Ox’s attention, but we ended up speaking through IG. It was pretty straightforward and I just sent him a pack. I didn’t really think nothing of it and then eventually, the track got to XXXTentacion.

I was on the phone with XXXTentacion because he wanted the track and it ended up just going to a whole other different level real fast. I ended up asking for an advance for the beat. I didn’t really know about the whole XXXTentacion hype. I knew of his music though. I didn’t want it to sound like I was totally cool with it, but I wasn’t a fan. I’m from New York, so at times it wasn’t clicking. He must’ve been at his prime fandom. The conversation we had was a little weird, it was like, “Yo, you know I got fans, I got people.” I was like, “Yo bro, I don’t really connect with your music,” you know what I mean? Like, I really was holding strong for the advance. But basically the producer for the album called me and was like, “Yo bro, we really like this track. Don’t mind the conversation and we’ll pay you.” So I ended up getting an advance for the track, but it was a little weird with me and XXXTentacion. When he passed, I felt bad because we never got to, like, reconcile or like, “Yo, I made that beat.” So it’s one of those things that’s a part of the catalogue, but it’s also a little weird.

Have you sent any beat packs to Matt Ox since then?

It was a little confusion with Matt Ox too. They were mad I was asking for money, like artist/producer shit. This was at a time where if you ain’t have no real pull, you wasn’t really gettin no bread. I don’t even know why I stood strong on that. I didn’t have any OG at the time. I didn’t have any mentors. I just felt money was right because I wasn’t a fan of their music. It worked out. Everybody was happy at the end, but I never got to connect with Matt Ox after that.

When you’re working on your own, do you ever make beats with particular vocalists in mind or do you let things get to the right people after the fact?

It really depends. For the longest, I was just making ideas and leading with what I thought was best. I was always working with my friends, so you never really think, like, “This is for my friend,” per se. But the influences of us working, whatever music we’re listening to, the environment and all that affects all of the decisions. When I was making music, it was always a communal thing, doing it around other people, or I’m doing it to spark something else. I guess in recent history I’m more intentional, but I think I’m just trying to work more comfortably, not necessarily show off as much as tryna deliver the best idea or the best possible version of whatever it is.

Are there any artists you still dream of working with one day?

Yes, for surely. I definitely got a dream collaboration down over the summer. I’m not sure if that’s gonna come out. I don’t wanna make it too hot and it don’t come out, but it is a track with Earl. That’s something that I was like, “Ahhhh,” you know?

I do have more dream collaborations. They feel, I would say, possibly tangible, but also it’s not something I really obsess over. I listen to their music and think like, “Damn, that’d be cool,” but I kind of just focus on the work I’m doing right now. Recently, it’s been like, that shit is possible, or it’s quite possibly possible. I just gotta continue working and make headways. But besides that, like legendary producers and shit, I know Alchemist doesn’t collab, but I feel like I could get bro to collab on some shit.

I feel like I work with a lot of people that are inspirational. I fuck with Tony heavy. He’s technically one of my favorite producers from when I was in high school. Working with him, even though that happened real fast, it was still a thing for me where I was like, “Yo, this dude is really one of my favorite producers and he’s showing mad love.” It kind of showed me everything isn’t that far in the distance. Slauson Malone, he showed me mad love in my early years. He was one of the first, but he was like my favorite producer. Here are people that in high school you feel are kind of distant, but these people were right there. These people ended up being my friends, mad cool, showing love. I still hold those guys up there as my favorites. Subjxct is a new favorite. He’s smashing everything and we got a bunch of shit. I cherish those relationships for sure.

Sampling is a big part of your practice and I’ve always considered you to be a really innovative sampler. What draws you to a sample or inspires you to utilize something as a sample in your music?

I was a collector when I was a kid, with CDs and movies and shit, and even hip hop memorabilia. Working with Stro, he ended up getting money from the X Factor shit. He went super hard with the hip hop memorabilia. This is someone from my age group, like a peer. I’m watching him buy, like, MTV Rap tapes, cards, CDs. He was getting deep, too. This was somebody who was pretty obscure off rip, so he’s finding out samples from shit. He’s, like, buying DVDs, VHS, all types of shit, hip hop posters. He was a super hip hop fanatic. I was kind of just living through him in a way. I wasn’t trying to collect as much, but I was super music obsessed. In the same way he was obsessed, I was kind of obsessed, but more so about, like, producing and listening and discovering music.

When I was in 6th grade, I used to remake Dilla beats and make beat tapes. I only did it a couple times, but that was my obsession with sampling, definitely learning about like Madlib and MF Doom. But I was super young trying to figure out how they were doing it. With Stro, we used to make beats together and really go crazy about the music, like, listening to samples, trying to find the root, finding out mad music for ourselves. I’m still obsessed with music, so I’m always listening. I’m always coming up with ideas or trying to scratch a certain itch.

I would say when Critch first came out, I was fully on the Soundcloud wave. I know this is kind of an extended answer, but I definitely had to start learning how to be more versatile. Coming up, it was more like boom bap. I remember having to learn different styles, how to be as versatile or original as possible. Like, sampling is cool, but how do you make an original sound? This has been the argument for years, like, original versus sampling, so I’m trying to do both. I love sampling though. Over the past few years, I’m pressing the gas on both things. I’m going full sample crazy, whether it’s like boom bap or like trying to bring that to a different realm. Then with the original shit too, I’m trying to make sure that stays in the repertoire. But really, I’m crazy about sampling.

If you had to name a handful of producers or other artists who have inspired your sound the most, who would you say? I know earlier you mentioned Tony Seltzer, Slauson Malone, Subjxct 5…

I would say those guys for sure, on a personal tip. Slauson Malone, when he was first dropping shit, definitely a major influence. Sporting Life, definitely, early Ratking. I tell Wiki all the time, like, “Bro, it don’t matter what happens. You are the goat.” I was there. I seen that shit. Then I would say Ade Hakim, for sure. We were always inspiring each other back in the day, heavy. MIKE, sLuMs, all of the homies. I could name a bunch of big producers, but they’re definitely not as inspirational as the people I was really listening to, working with, because we were putting into practice way more than we were just listening.

Madlib and J Dilla – those are the two mentors that you could always listen to. They have something that will speak to you. There’s other new producers too, the list goes on. I’m a local cat, so a lot of the shit is just like in the city, and then there’s artists from different places and shit. Shout out to Terrain, uptown and shit. Shout out my young bro, Jada Sounds. These are all new producers doing their thing. Ba Pace, crazy. I could go on but it’s a lot of the homies.

You recently released Toesina with Vendetta, Mally, and Critch. Is there a new Talk Money Tape in the works?

Yeah, definitely. They have a bunch of tracks. We have a bunch of tracks. I’ve been trying to push for them to have me produce the whole thing. I feel like that would be the best Talk Money Tape. It’s up to them, though. I’m not necessarily stressing it because we have so much work, something will come. I have a bunch of shit with all of them. I’m tryna do a tape with V12 because he has it as well. Those are the homies so we always got stuff coming.

What do you hope fans will take away from Plus Ultra?

I feel like the fans will really enjoy the project. This is really a great time because it’s a lot of shit bro hasn’t done, so that’s kind of what I look at, like, what haven’t we done yet? We’ve done a bunch of shit that certain artists don’t get to do. Now, we’re just putting together something that’s cohesive in a way or like a singular vision. I don’t want to discredit anything he’s put together, but as far as something that’s just one sound, that’s the shit I’m talking about. I don’t really have crazy expectations, but I do want to present this to the world. I feel like it opens the door for way more shit we have to offer, different sounds, different emotions. We’re trying to dig deeper with what we have going on. We’ve only scratched the surface with certain collaborations over time, with singles, tracks on albums. Now it’s full vision, so I think that’s what I’m excited for.

I feel like you guys have so much under your belt already but at the same time, you’re so early in your career. That’s really exciting.

And it’s a blessing because sometimes it feels like you get old fast. At least you see with certain artists, you can age with the sound and shit. I think it's definitely a beautiful thing that we’re able to have a crack at real longevity, making something that can make the OG fans of us proud. That’s what I’ve been thinking about too. We have day 1’s, people who know our shit. They beg for tracks I don’t even remember making. You gotta make them proud. I had a conversation with the guys, like, “This is to make the day 1’s proud.” And obviously just up everything that we’ve got going on.

Any other goals for the year, creative, personal, or otherwise?

I got two tracks on the new MIKE shit about to drop. By the time maybe this drops, that’ll be out. I was supposed to have a track on the new Pink Siifu shit, but that didn’t drop. But me and Siifu got some shit. I’ve been locked in with YL heavy, we got some shit too. I’ve been locked in with all the homies, so hopefully it’s a releaseful year. I have Vol 2 of The Corner coming this year, I hope. We have visuals, a whole project, but more so Jada wants to make it like one of his strongest projects yet. I can say I feel like with the beats and shit I’ma deliver, but we’re cranking tryna get the best of what we could put together. I have the vinyl for The Corner, Vol 1 coming together too. I know a bunch of people have been asking me about that. Hopefully it’s a releaseful year because I didn’t really drop a lot last year. I’m tryna get rid of a bunch of shit.

What do you like to do with your time these days when you’re not working on or listening to music?

I just got a cat, so been chilling with the cat. I don’t know where he’s at right now, but he’s been driving us crazy. He hasn’t gotten neutered yet, so he’s been terrorizing us. I gotta take him to do that. Outside of that, food, I be watching shit with my girl, mad different shows and shit. I’m into clothes heavy, like graphic design and shit like that. I try not to make it a thing. I feel like fashion sometimes with music, it goes so hand in hand. I really just be chilling, though. Music is really my first love, so I kinda make sure I crank out something not every day, but like it’s always on my mind. Besides that, graphic design is something I fuck with.

Just because you mentioned it earlier, when you said that you originally wanted to be a rapper, it totally reminded me of the old L Boy vocal tracks. Do you see yourself getting back in the booth anytime soon?

I think I’m kind of self conscious. I feel like it comes down to what you have to say. I was also always weird about my voice. I think I use the rap part of myself as a guide for when I’m making beats, so there is a rapper there. There is somebody there. I don’t know if i'm gonna answer that call ever. I feel like sometimes I wanna keep the main thing as the main thing, and then also you see the pivot. Like, it’s possible, but nah, I don’t really think I could do it for real. I’m way more passionate about creating and crafting behind the boards. Especially over time, it’s been kind of liberating. Especially now that I know what I'm doing, it's kind of like, “Wow.” But as far as rapping, I just use that as a guide. It’s definitely guiding me when I'm making beats. I’m trying to make the best thing that someone would want to rap on and it kind of starts with yourself.